Welcome to MGO's Internet Discussion Forums…Please Consider Becoming a Dues-Paying Member of the ORG…Click >>>>>HERE<<<<< for more info…………****DONATIONS**** can also be made toward MGO's Legal Defense Fund and/or MGO's Forums >>>>>HERE<<<<<

Firearms Legal Protection

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 37
  1. #1
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Kalamazoo
    Posts
    2,231

    Armed Teachers: Maybe More Popular Than First Thought

    http://www.thenewsherald.com/news/sc...ff684f27e.html

    What started out as a plan to give 24 teachers and school administrators a one-time free course in basic handgun training and one free concealed pistol license training quickly turned into 339 spots being reserved as of March 11.
    Someone should ask Southwicks in Plainwell how many they had sign up with their $40 deal.

  2. #2
    Looks like the real Americans have had enuff of being pushed around in behalf of the 'protesting kinds?'

  3. #3
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    27

    Armed Teachers: Maybe More Popular Than First Thought

    Great news! Reminds me of what I heard when the President had the governors over at the WH. Governor Inslee of WA said, “My teacher don’t want to be packing a gun.” My first response was how would you know? The answer is he does not know, because he is simply advancing the silly anti-gun narrative.

    Glad to see that theses teachers realize their personal safety rests with them and learning gun basics and safety is a good place to start.[emoji106]


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Utica
    Posts
    2,099
    I've never really understood the grabbers argument on this. Their claim is that there will be more collateral damage if you put people who are non-dedicated firearms carriers is thoroughly illogical. The vast majority of the best intentioned teachers/staff who volunteer to carry will not advance to contact in an active shooter scenario through simple self preservation. Thus, in the majority of cases those staff will not fire a shot unless their hiding place is encroached on by the shooter. For those staff whose hiding place is encroached on they will have little choice but to open fire. I would suggest that even those staff with the highest levels of self preservation will not have put the children between them and the likely entrance the shooter would use and therefore, other than the remote possibility of hitting innocents through the wall that are behind the shooter, (that chance rapidly approaches zero since they will have most likely already have been shot), none of the children in the hiding place should become the victim of a staff members rounds.

    On the other hand, when confronted by an armed citizen there have been several cases where the shooter stops and tops themself. In that case the job is done even if no shots are actually fired or the magazine is empty without hitting the shooter. Let's assume that the shooter doesn't stop and continues his action. He will, through the same instinct for self preservation that prevented the staff from advancing to contact, turn his attention to the threat. Every second he isn't concentrating on the children and every round he wastes defending himself is a bonus.

    Lastly, let's assume that the teacher fires and the shooter defends himself successfully. He will go on to kill as many as he can in that room before moving on. Where is the down side? With an unarmed teacher the result would have been this scenario in a slightly shorter time and a few less rounds used so even then there is a small upside for the armed staff.

    If the staff had managed to wound the shooter prior to their own demise that would serve to erode the resolve of the shooter possibly causing him to withdraw earlier than he previously intended or, remotely, bleed out himself. Again, it's an upside to having armed staff.

    Those staff with the resolve to advance to contact have made a conscious decision to protect the children and other staff all any cost. That acceptance of their own potential demise makes an incredible difference on their decision making and demeanor in contact resulting in less wild shooting and more considered and hopefully better aimed shots. The shooter may "stop and top" or may defend successfully or not. Again, if wounded his resolve may falter or he may bleed out but, yet again, seconds and rounds will have been wasted.

    The grabbers seem to ignore all of this and focus on probably the least likely of all the scenarios - that being that teachers will run around like headless chickens shooting anything that moves until they themselves are shot by the shooter...

    Fools...

  5. #5
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Muskegon
    Posts
    425
    Despite my reverence for the constitution and the second amendment, and the fact that I carry, I'm not totally embracing the concept of arming teachers. My gut reaction is that it's not a good idea, but of course, I need to step back and consider whether my reaction is warranted.

    I think my primary concern is that it's one thing to carry a handgun to protect yourself, but it's another matter, and another level of training to use a handgun to protect others.

    And, where is that teacher's handgun going to be. Is Mrs. Krabappel going to wear it on her waist? Let's face it, one or two unstable students could get their hands on that weapon anytime. Lock it in a safe? So, they have to beat her about the head until she opens it for them? I'm not seeing a gun in every classroom as a good thing.

    If school security is an issue that communities truly want to address, then certainly security is the answer. Screening measures like metal detectors, etc., have their place, but totally eliminating threats is impossible. I'll bet you a super-soaker filled with gasoline and a Bic lighter will make it through a metal detector. The best way to reduce casualties NOW is to have a trained and armed individual on the scene VERY quickly. When that alarm sounds, at the very least, a guy in a bullet resistant vest and an AR-15, a couple flash bangs, and some tear gas is running like hell down the corridor. If 6 are killed instead of 17, I'd call that progress. We all know that "gun control" will have no immediate effect, and little or no effect in the near or distant future. Damn fools.

  6. #6
    MGO Board of Directors

    Trustee


    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Now far south of the city: FAR.
    Posts
    11,433
    Heads are on fire and it's all political smoke up our butts
    Sandy hook - NRA said "let's put armed trained volunteers in schools, maybe even teachers" and the democrats said "YOU ARE MONSTERS AND YOU WANT KIDS TO DIE". 2 months later obama said "maybe we can put armed trained volunteers in schools, maybe even teachers" and the democrats said "you might be onto something, but let's not do that just yet". Then after every other school shooting the NRA said "let's put armed trained volunteers in schools, maybe even teachers" and the democrats said "YOU ARE MONSTERS AND YOU WANT KIDS TO DIE". The dems wanted to try "something else" and did nothing. Now trump says "let's put armed trained volunteers in schools, maybe even teachers" and the democrats say "YOU ARE AN NRA SHILL AND YOU HATE MINORITIES AND YOU WANT THEM TO DIE"
    I'm most confused at how strongly the bulk of teachers oppose the idea. They talk about how much they care about the kids, and how they want to protect them, and they know cops can't/won't protect the kids in time... who else is left? how weak is their resolve to keep those kids safe? what fantasy world do they live in? why don't facts matter to these educators?
    DISCLAIMER: Disclaimer. The opinions expressed in this post are those of the author, DrScaryGuy. They do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of MGO, its board of directors, or its members.

  7. #7
    MGO Board of Directors

    Trustee


    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Now far south of the city: FAR.
    Posts
    11,433
    Quote Originally Posted by Siamese View Post
    ...I'm not totally embracing the concept of arming teachers. My gut reaction is that it's not a good idea, but of course, I need to step back and consider whether my reaction is warranted. ...
    This is not an attack on you, but more the idea that many have said and you mentioned

    NOBODY said that every teacher should carry or that every classroom should have a gun. the NRA didn't say it in 2012, obama didn't say it in 2013, nobody has said it since, and trump didn't say it in 2018.
    That is the strawman argument that the anti-gun folks are using to try to discredit the idea of having any armed teachers. Yes, forcing every teacher to carry a gun tomorrow is a STUPID idea. That's why nobody is pushing it except the imaginary people that the left is trying to vilify. I was a substitute for a few years when I was younger. I didn't know as much as I do now, but I could certainly shoot straight and I knew when not to shoot. It's not rocket science. If a shooter is killing folks at random, they're bad. self defense is called for - not even bringing up the issue of defending others.
    If somebody is blocked in a room with somebody that's shooting eenie, meenie, and miney, your average moe is smart enough to spot the pattern and act accordingly - "run" and "hide" aren't options anymore, "fight" is all that's left.
    DISCLAIMER: Disclaimer. The opinions expressed in this post are those of the author, DrScaryGuy. They do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of MGO, its board of directors, or its members.

  8. #8
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Mid Mi
    Posts
    520
    I kind of have mixed feelings on arming teachers.

    There is the positive side as mentioned above in that a well trained determined teacher could slow or even stop a school shooting attempt.

    On the other side-- I have a personal involvement with 4 teachers. Brother, brother in law, wife’s sister in law, & wife of a cousin.

    Of the 4 teachers that I know one (my brother) wouldn’t want to carry a gun as he is pretty anti gun & the laziest person that I know. If carrying a gun at school involved ANY effort on his part he would opt out. Now if he could carry a beer cooler into school he might put a little effort into that.

    Now my wife’s sister in law would put the effort into carrying a gun to school. I fact she has mentioned a few times that she would get some training & pack heat (her words). Problem is, this woman is a schizoid (like a fart in a whirl wind). In the last 20 years or so she has lost at least 3 purses with all her ID, keys, & personal effects still in them. She has left her car running for hours unattended by forgetting to turn it off. Locked herself out of her house a number of times (well you get the idea on this).
    I would be willing to bet this woman would lose, misplace, of have-stolen- by-a-student that gun within the first year of carrying it to school. (not a doubt in my mind)

    Then you have my brother in law, he is a braggart, poser, self stated expert on everything. No doubt he would show his gun to everyone, brag about his expert shooting ability, lecture everyone on how to carry & use. No doubt he would become an arm chair expert. Problem is he can’t do *****. He definitely wouldn’t learn to handle it correctly past what is required to possess & carry it (he talks intelligent but I have never seen him back the talk with actions). This guy needs written directions on a pair of pliers to be able to even open them. As mentioned, he can talk the talk & at first impression he seems intelligent but this guy carrying a gun scares me no end & we don’t even live in the same area. This guy carrying a gun around kids scares me even more. He has never mentioned wanting to carry a gun but knowing him if there is bragging rights involved or the appearance of being mister macho to other teachers he would be all in & brag about it all the way.

    Then you have the wife of my cousin (my cousin was my main hunting partner until & he quit hunting). This woman is the perfect candidate & poster child for teacher carry. She is an excellent hunter, has taken many game animals, guts her own deer & elk. Is very cool under pressure, is very level headed & a crack pistol shot. She would take teacher carry very seriously, train & practice until she was sure she could handle any situation.
    Problem is she is against teacher carry. Her reasoning is having to continually keep track of a firearm at school at all times makes teaching more difficult. She also feels the same as me about the potential for accidents, theft, or complications far outweigh the slight benefit of an armed teacher intervening & stopping a school shooting. She has also mentioned a personal concern about a pissed student claiming they were harassed or threatened by a gun carrying teacher.

    There is no doubt in my mind that a few tactical type teachers could carry at school & be a positive deterrent but my common sense instinct tells me that overall there would be way more problems with teacher carry than the very few school shootings that it would prevent, or actually stop once initiated.

    If a trained veteran LEO in mid Michigan can leave a loaded gun on a locker room bench how much of the same things would we see yearly when thousands of teachers start carrying daily into thousands of schools while trying to keep their minds on every day school activities, teaching, lesson planning, continuous changing conditions that require their immediate & full attention?

    My personal view is: if we want to put armed personal in the schools then do it right & put trained professionals in place that their only job is to protect the school & students not arm teachers when their primary job is to teach, maintain continuity in the classroom, & lead our students.
    Last edited by slingshot77; 03-17-2018 at 10:55 AM.

  9. #9
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Muskegon
    Posts
    425
    Quote Originally Posted by DrScaryGuy View Post
    This is not an attack on you, but more the idea that many have said and you mentioned

    NOBODY said that every teacher should carry or that every classroom should have a gun. the NRA didn't say it in 2012, obama didn't say it in 2013, nobody has said it since, and trump didn't say it in 2018.
    That is the strawman argument that the anti-gun folks are using to try to discredit the idea of having any armed teachers. Yes, forcing every teacher to carry a gun tomorrow is a STUPID idea. That's why nobody is pushing it except the imaginary people that the left is trying to vilify. I was a substitute for a few years when I was younger. I didn't know as much as I do now, but I could certainly shoot straight and I knew when not to shoot. It's not rocket science. If a shooter is killing folks at random, they're bad. self defense is called for - not even bringing up the issue of defending others.
    If somebody is blocked in a room with somebody that's shooting eenie, meenie, and miney, your average moe is smart enough to spot the pattern and act accordingly - "run" and "hide" aren't options anymore, "fight" is all that's left.
    And, I didn't say "all teachers" either. But, if there's a push on from the federal government and public momentum, then we could see teachers who otherwise would not carry, and have no experience with it, becoming armed and in a position to come to the rescue of others. And, be responsible with their firearm all times, ensuring it doesn't' leave their person. Teachers are in very close contact with their students, not unlike prison guards around inmates. It would be very easy to get behind and close to a teacher and disarm them. Impossible to be on your guard day after day, year after year, with that kind of proximity.

  10. #10
    MGO Board of Directors

    Trustee CyborgHunter's Avatar


    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Macomb County, MI
    Posts
    1,207
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    So, unless the teachers are not people, then the above is all that needs to be said about teachers and guns.
    DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, or official policies of Michigan Gun Owners.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
only search Michigan Gun Owners Forums
MGO's Facebook MGO's Twitter