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  1. #1

    Section 750.227d, "Take down", and the Kel-Tec Sub-2000

    I am considering purchasing the Kel-tec Sub-2000 as an open carry, in my vehicle "car/truck gun". I do not have my CC permit yet, if it makes a difference. My question is about Section 750.227d (the gun in car law), keeping the Kel-tec in the car - folded as it collapses only. I understand that the firearm unfolds and requires a magazine and charging handle pull, or something like that, in order for the gun to be ready to fire. Is this folding enough to qualify as a take-down?

    The law reads as follows:

    ------------

    THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931


    750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.

    Sec. 227d.

    (1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel either of the following:

    (a) A firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:

    (i) Taken down.

    (ii) Enclosed in a case.

    (iii) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (iv) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

    (b) A pneumatic gun that expels a metallic BB or metallic pellet greater than .177 caliber unless the pneumatic gun is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:

    (i) Taken down.

    (ii) Enclosed in a case.

    (iii) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (iv) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

    (2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.


    History: Add. 1981, Act 103, ***. Mar. 31, 1982 ;-- Am. 2015, Act 26, ***. July 1, 2015

    ---------

    However, the law does not say where ammunition can be. In the event I had to load it from the car, and I presume this would fall under "open carry", could I load and chamber a magazine if I am attacked while driving (i.e. carjacking), right outside the car (pumping gas), or otherwise encounter a life-threatening encounter nearby? So, could I keep ammunition somewhere else in the car (center console, glove box) with the Kel-tec folded somewhere else in the car (under a seat) and still be on good terms with the law? That way in a situation I could unfold the kel-tec, grab a magazine from a compartment or my person, and load/be ready to fire. When, or if, does it become a no-no? Loading the carbine in the car at all?

    If I had a CC permit, I understand this could all be solved by just having something loaded on the person. And that very well can happen soon. But if I wanted to carry this carbine instead/meanwhile, how could I set it up in my car for it to be accessible and legal? I know I would not be able to carry it inside allowable places, but I am not really interested in that at the moment - just defending myself while I am in and near my car. Thanks.

  2. #2
    MGO Member ltcnav's Avatar
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    First thought, you will be getting a CPL-Concealed PISTOL License. This is applicable to handguns only. Having a CPL does not affect transportation/possession/carry of long guns.
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  3. #3
    I am a Forum User
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    The question is what is meant by taken down? Does folded mean taken down? I have not been able to find a MI definition of taken down, however the dictionary definition of take down is:

    Definition of takedown
    : constructed so as to be readily taken apart
    a takedown rifle

    So it liike like taken down, means taken apart, not folded.

    If I was going to do this, either go to a system like the DOLOS which physically separates parts, or keep it in a case that is easily opened.

  4. #4
    Spoke with more knowledgeable and authoritative people and the consensus is (find your own info/don't quote me on it) - folding alone does not qualify as takedown. IF it is in the cabin of the vehicle, it would need to be in a case, separate from ammunition that can be somewhere else in the cabin - i.e. meet the law I noted. Can't carry concealed - it is considered a rifle now, not a pistol anymore. Once upon a time, it may have if I was reading ~8 year posts correctly. Open carry is still permitted as much as any other long gun is, but wouldn't bother.

    Decided it's better off sticking to the CPL plan and carrying a handgun like everyone else if I so desire. Kel-tec is RTS. Thanks!

  5. #5
    MGO Member Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
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    The whole "ammunition in a separate area of the vehicle" is nonsense and urban lore in Michigan.

    Unloaded means unloaded, not separate. Having loaded mags is fine. As long as they are not IN the firearm, it is unloaded.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleakend View Post
    Spoke with more knowledgeable and authoritative people and the consensus is................................................ .................................................. .... it would need to be in a case, separate from ammunition that can be somewhere else in the cabin
    Just how more knowledgeable and authoritative are these people?

    Maybe they are right on part one.
    Part two - they missed it by a mile.
    "But then there are plenty of gun folks who think no one should rock the boat because it might piss off the anti gun crowd/politicians and cause even more gun control." - Bikenut
    Submissive gun rights advocates need to lose their submissiveness before we lose our 2A rights.

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