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Thread: HEADACHE

  1. #1
    MGO Member DEVIL DOG's Avatar
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    HEADACHE

    Getting old has finally caught up with me I guess. Been reading info on AR & AK pistols for the last couple days & I still don't know if I'm in trouble or not.


    I have a PAP92 pistol that I bought from J&G Arms some years ago. When I bought it, I registered it as a pistol in MI. It came with a 10" barrel with a slanted muzzle break. OAL was 18.75". I put a Manticore Night Brake on it & the OAL went just over 19".


    Fast forward to last week when I purchased a SB47 & installed it. The OAL is now well over 26". The info is confusing to me to say the least.


    I have a similar issue with a PSA AR15 pistol. It came with just a thread protector on the 10.5" barrel, & had an OAL of 25.2". I installed a YHM flash hider on it & now the OAL is over 26". Wanting to add a SBA3 to this & not sure if it will increase the OAL.


    Are these still considered pistols, or have I put myself in NFA territory?
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  2. #2
    MGO Member JDG's Avatar
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    Active airport shooter

  3. #3
    MGO Member DEVIL DOG's Avatar
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    MI. law then when over 26" = firearm ?
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  4. #4
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    IANAL but my understanding is MI measures from the shortest configuration the gun can be fired. In your case flash hider and brace removed which is under 26” the grey area comes into play when talking about how they measure for concealed carry. There is no case law regarding that. I think general consensus is they would measure from shortest configuration as well but nobody knows for sure. I’m sure someone will correct me quickly if I’m wrong.

  5. #5
    MGO Member JDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEVIL DOG View Post
    MI. law then when over 26" = firearm ?
    Right, just don't get fancy with the vfg's!! lol
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  6. #6
    MGO Member DEVIL DOG's Avatar
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    Do they make this stuff so confusing for a reason or am I just not getting it? If it's over 26" & still considered a pistol under Fed. law, does it still have to be registered in MI ? Was looking earlier at Atlantic Firearms & some of the pistols with a muzzle device & a brace from the manufacturer are over 30" in some cases.
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  7. #7
    MGO Member JDG's Avatar
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    Your receiving FFL would be the one that would hopefully know. You should treat it as a long gun at pick up....
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  8. #8
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    If you have only changed the muzzle device (un-screwed on and screwed another one on) and added the SB then NOTHING has changed. The law gets a little murky and untested as far as "Michigan Pistols" are concerned... Clearly it is still a pistol under federal law as long as it has no stock... However, whether or not Michigan still calls it a pistol??? It is not clear in the law how a pistol is to be measured... And as stated above the law has not been tested.

    I keep my "Pistols" under 26" at all times. Others don't... I'm not offering any advice at all. But I would not carry anything that COULD be measured over 26" as a pistol in Michigan. I PERSONALLY treat anything 25 1/2" or more as a long gun.

    Although there is no reason I can think of to alter the registration IF it were purchased as a pistol. If you remove the SB it is clearly a pistol again...

  9. #9
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    my understanding of the law is that muzzle devices, unless pinned (I.E. Permanent additions), do not count towards the OAL of your firearm. IANAL but it sounds as though you haven't change the legal length of anything.

  10. #10
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    Will it operate without the SB47? Yes. Therefore, you do not include it in the OAL.

    Will it operate without the non-pinned or welded brake? Yes. Therefore, you do not include it in the OAL. Measure to the end of the threads.

    If it is under 26" without the SB47 and brake, it's still a pistol both federally and per MI law.

    If it's over 26" without the SB47 and brake, it's a pistol federally but a firearm in MI. The only difference is: You can no longer carry it under your CPL.

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