Welcome to MGO's Internet Discussion Forums…Please Consider Becoming a Dues-Paying Member of the ORG…Click >>>>>HERE<<<<< for more info…………****DONATIONS**** can also be made toward MGO's Legal Defense Fund and/or MGO's Forums >>>>>HERE<<<<<

KROGER

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14
  1. #1
    MGO Member Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Belleville
    Posts
    4,354

    Range Report: Federal HST +P .45 acp (no bueno), lots of different malfunctions

    I am very disappointed in the results of testing this through a variety .45's. Though I don't believe it to be the ammunition's fault on its own, but rather the guns' inability to handle it.


    Federal HST .45 ACP 230 gr +P, 950 fps.




    I ran (or attempted to) 150 rounds through three of my .45's that are in my carry rotation. A XDS, a Sig Compact Carry Nitron (4"), and a FNX45.






    The first round in the FNX locked the slide to the rear. The slide stop was NOT engaging, it had simply frozen in its rearmost position. The slide was not in contact with the next round in the mag, or anywhere near the mag itself (about 1/4" behind the rim). The previous cartridge had ejected normally, and the next round in the mag was in a normal position in the feed lips. It just froze to the rear. I dropped the mag, pulled the slide back (it was already all the way back, so basically just applying pressure), and released it as normal. I cycled the slide manually and could not recreate it. The mag was inserted, slide racked, and fired another round. Same malfunction.... Slide frozen to rear, slide stop not engaged, no mechanical interference to be found. Firm forward pressure on the slide broke it free, and it went into battery. I stripped the gun, and found no foreign debris, damage, or any other reason the slide could be sticking. I still could not recreate the malfunction by manually operating the slide, even aggressively. I loaded the remainder of the mag, and shot through it all without issue until the last round. The slide locked back as normal....but the mag would not drop free, and the slide stop was frozen in the locked position. The mag could not come out even with me pulling on it with decent force. The magazine release was overly stiff, and would not spring back to center. Looking closer at the open slide, the follower had jumped over top of the slide stop tab and bound everything up.




    (normal)



    At this point I gave up on my FNX. It was obvious it wasn't liking the stuff AT ALL. This pistol has NEVER (not ONCE) malfunctioned on me in the 1500 rounds of standard pressure Ive put through it so far. I also have never seen a malfunction like either of these in ANY pistol Ive ever owned or shot before. If one of these pistols would have eaten this +P like candy, I figured it would have been this FNX.


    One magazine into the 1911, I had a bolt-over-base malfunction on the last round. Again, the first BOB malfunction Ive ever seen in this pistol, and the first malfunction Ive seen in this pistol in years (since it was new/ break in). I ran another handful of mags through it with no problem. There was slight evidence of firing pin drag on the primers though. Again, something new for this pistol.






    The XDS....the one pistol I figured would be intolerant of this deep dish hollow point +P......ate it up like candy. In all 3 magazine sizes (5, 6, and 7 round variants) it cycled flawlessly in around 100 rounds. Recoil was on the verge of being unpleasant, though I consider myself to be very recoil tolerant. Im sure in less seasoned hands it would be perceived as excessive. It reminded me of a .357 through a J-frame. Follow up shots definitely suffer, though are still acceptable in speed and accuracy for my personal standards. Again, primer drag is evident (also new for this pistol), and primer flow is about as much as Id want to see on a .45.


    Top: standard pressure Golden saber 230 gr,
    Bottom: HST +P out of the 1911
    Right: HST +P out of the XDS....with plenty of drag and flow evident








    In the end, Im rather disappointed in how this ammo performed in 3 entirely different platforms. Though, I believe it has nothing to do with it being HST, but rather +P. No pistol seemed to really like it, sans the XDS (except for the primer drag and flow). Slide velocities on all three pistols are way above normal causing malfunctions, and in the case of the FNX, battering the thing to death (which surprised the hell out of me, being the biggest and heaviest slide). It broke my trust in the FNX, and probably won't carry it again until I get a good string of 200-300 flawless shots out of it with standard pressure carry ammo.


    I guess I should yield to what the internet consensus has been on .45, that +P isn't needed, and standard pressure 230 gr is the gold standard of .45 acp. I have since ordered another sample of standard pressure HST, and hope everything works out well with it. I am entirely sold on the terminal performance of the bullet in gel testing, and would REALLY like for it to replace my past favorite (golden sabers).

  2. #2
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    ypsilanti, MI
    Posts
    2,986
    Nice write up! Thanks.

    Joe

  3. #3
    MGO Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Not far enough north in Michigan
    Posts
    1,308
    Thx much for taking the time to do the research AND share.

  4. #4
    MGO Member Tom S.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northwest of Detroit
    Posts
    6,776
    I have to say I'm a bit surprised. I've owned several different Sig models, though admittedly never one of their 1911 style models, and was always surprised at their flexibility in feeding and firing anything I fed them, including reduced power loads used in some of my target guns. I will concede I've never used Plus-P in the P220 I owned, but I did in some of the 9mm, and they handled it without any problems.

    Thanks for your review!

  5. #5
    MGO Member Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Belleville
    Posts
    4,354
    That 1911 is an early Sig 1911. I believe they made it not too long after the GSR. Ive been VERY pleased with it. 100% stainless steel (except for the aluminum grip safety), beveled everything, nitron finish, excellent out of the box trigger, and a fit that rivals dan wessons. Very tight, and very well made. IMO better put together than any of the current Sig 1911's. It was expensive though....IIRC it was $1299 or $1399 in the 2000's. I also added an insanely expensive Nighthawk MSH/ mag well with a comfy rounded/ beveled heel to help my massive meat hooks hang on to the officer sized frame without getting stabbed by the square heel in the palm under recoil.

    Im not a fan of downsized 1911's, but after taking this one in on a trade I ended up liking it so much its been in my carry rotation for nearly a decade now.


    The only other malfunctions I had with it was when I first got it, and it was a magazine issue. (oddly....it doesn't like factory Sig mags, or Wilsons, or Chips....only Kimbers). Nothing since then in probably 2000 FMJ's and 300 defensive JHP's.









    I know its petty......but I really do like the cut on the front of the slide. Since Sig was in the mood to take their own liberties with how a 1911 should look (square slide) they also added square relief cuts to the front of the slide instead of the standard GI 'swoop' cut, or the more modern radius cut. I really wish they still did this. IMO combined with the squared slide it gives it a much more modern look. I wish I could go back in time and buy a 5" government model from them in this generation. I haven't seen one pop up for sale in a few years with it being all nitron coated stainless and with the angular slide relief cuts on the muzzle.





    Last edited by Fuel Fire Desire; 10-05-2018 at 10:39 AM.

  6. #6
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Lansing
    Posts
    91
    I blame the fact that improving on a perfect round is like playing God no need for +p 45
    Buy a bazooka if you want something bigger.

    Good write though I actually read it all.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    MGO Member JDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek
    Posts
    8,231
    Thanks for the write up, and have to agree with Rubber Duck, your already making the biggest hole you can, no need to push it any harder... 185gr Golden Sabers have 425 ft/lb of energy with standard pressure, and feed like ball ammo.
    Active airport shooter

  8. #8
    MGO Member Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Belleville
    Posts
    4,354
    Quote Originally Posted by JDG View Post
    Thanks for the write up, and have to agree with Rubber Duck, your already making the biggest hole you can, no need to push it any harder... 185gr Golden Sabers have 425 ft/lb of energy with standard pressure, and feed like ball ammo.
    I haven't tried any of the 185gr varieties yet.

    The big reason I wanted to give the HST a try is because the bullet is directly comparable to Ranger T (a much more modern and functional design over Golden Sabers), but unlike Ranger T its actually available. Mass Ammo has bulk available for not much more than store bought FMJ. Shipping is slow (Im still waiting on my second order of standard pressure HST to try) but at less than $0.50/ round for really good quality defensive ammo its worth the wait.




    Terminal ballistics is a nerd fetish for me. These are the two reports that steered me away from the ol' faithful golden sabers towards the HST based products. Trying the +P first was just an exercise in "more is better".

    The failure to expand in the GS's, and the MASSIVE (and reliable) expansion of the HST is what caught my eye.

    https://www.luckygunner.com/45acp-re...jhp-50#geltest





    https://www.luckygunner.com/45-acp-2...rounds#geltest



  9. #9
    MGO Member JDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek
    Posts
    8,231
    I know all about ammo causing malfs, in a gun that has run 100% up until you try a different ammo. I broke in a Kimber UCII on 230gr ball, 500 rounds of perfect function on my target load(730fps) first mag of SD copy cat loads, I got multiple early slide locks. Nothing would fix it short of grinding the engagement nub off the slide stop. The heavy recoil would lock back the slide, even with Kimbers fix of them sending me a new improved slide stop. I could care less if I lost the hold open feature, so long as the gun functioned otherwise, which it did 100%. My carry load was 185gr GS with a max dose of Power Pistol@1000fps
    Active airport shooter

  10. #10
    MGO Member Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Belleville
    Posts
    4,354
    Quote Originally Posted by JDG View Post
    I know all about ammo causing malfs, in a gun that has run 100% up until you try a different ammo. I broke in a Kimber UCII on 230gr ball, 500 rounds of perfect function on my target load(730fps) first mag of SD copy cat loads, I got multiple early slide locks. Nothing would fix it short of grinding the engagement nub off the slide stop. The heavy recoil would lock back the slide, even with Kimbers fix of them sending me a new improved slide stop. I could care less if I lost the hold open feature, so long as the gun functioned otherwise, which it did 100%. My carry load was 185gr GS with a max dose of Power Pistol@1000fps

    I had the same thing happen to a factory built 10mm 1911. Early slide locks, not related to bullet/ slide lock interference within the mag well. The slide smacking the rear of its travel would bounce the catch up and lock it back. I sent it back to the manufacturer and they resprung the entire gun with heavy duty wolf springs (recoil, main, safety/ slide lock, firing pin, and leaf). They also went the extra mile and polished the feed ramp, chamber, inside of the slide lock, and lapped the slide/ frame. And they had it back to me in a week. I was dumbfounded they did all this, considering it was a $700 RIA.

    But the heavy duty springs are what really fixed the problem for me. Full house 10 was battering the frame and bouncing the slide lock up. The gun still functions great on soft ball Armscor all the way up to Underwood.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
only search Michigan Gun Owners Forums
MGO's Facebook MGO's Twitter