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Firearms Legal Protection

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  1. #21
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    I agree with Rootsy. If it doesn't meet NRA/military safety standards, it isn't going to be approved. I also don't think that there are enough dedicated LR shooters to support it. Many people think they are "snipers", but they just want to go out and blast. For years, Rootsy has offered to take people to a HP match so they can learn to shoot out to 600yds. I don't think he's ever had anyone take him up on his offer. As BWSA proved, everyone wants to shoot but nobody wants to be a member and do member stuff.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnS624 View Post
    I agree with Rootsy. If it doesn't meet NRA/military safety standards, it isn't going to be approved. I also don't think that there are enough dedicated LR shooters to support it. Many people think they are "snipers", but they just want to go out and blast. For years, Rootsy has offered to take people to a HP match so they can learn to shoot out to 600yds. I don't think he's ever had anyone take him up on his offer. As BWSA proved, everyone wants to shoot but nobody wants to be a member and do member stuff.
    I strongly disagree. High Power is not where growth is happening in LR shooting, so that's a very poor gauge.

    MTC has done pretty well for itself on membership.

    MTC's LR rifle courses are almost always filled, and they run as often as they practically can, factoring in cadre time, matches, and member range use time.

    Guardian Match at MTC every year, fills within days of opening, and it costs $250 for one day (charity benefit).

    PRS Regional Series is coming to MI this year (Michigan Precision Rifle Steel Challenge- MPRSC)- our first match already has 17 people registered and it's over two and a half months away still, with registration only having been open for two weeks. Several of those have NEVER shot a long range rifle match of any type. The Facebook group is about three months old and has 450 members.

    LR Shooting is seeing it's growth in practical long range competition, or guys that just like to ring steel from their bellies out to 1k. No offense to guys that are into it, but NRA High Power type matches, are boring. If you're gauging popularity on that, you're looking down a straw.


    Yes, BWSA did prove something- guys don't want to put their money on the line for something that isn't a sure thing. I was one of them. I'm a member at MTC and a club local to Lansing. I'm not going to buy a membership to BWSA, HOPE that I can make the membership meeting, HOPE the vote goes well, and HOPE that sometime in the next couple years I'll be able to have them as another option... which isn't really even any closer than MTC, where I don't have to worry about being over-run by closed minded shotgunning Fudds. Yeah, sure- the membership cost in the big picture of what I spend on LR shooting, was nothing. But if I tossed money at every thin chance of return, I wouldn't have money to be shooting. That membership would have been useless to me otherwise. So, sorry... that's just the way things work out.

  3. #23
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    High power isn’t boring, it is hard and you can’t buy points at the reloading bench or the gunsmith. That X Ring is frightening and difficult to get to so the latest fad is binary steel. Everyone gets the same prize no matter where you hit it...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rootsy View Post
    High power isn’t boring, it is hard and you can’t buy points at the reloading bench or the gunsmith. That X Ring is frightening and difficult to get to so the latest fad is binary steel. Everyone gets the same prize no matter where you hit it...
    It's cool, you enjoy it. Nothing wrong with that. I happen to think it's boring (same with F-Class). Growth statistics seem to indicate I'm in good company. None of that discounts the discipline though- no doubt it's not an easy sport.

    Now, you do seem to discount the PPR type competitions. That's unfortunate.

    I'd really encourage you to come out and try your hand at one of our PRS Regional club matches.

  5. #25
    MGO Member happy_gunner's Avatar
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    I just want to point out that although I am sure there was some FUDD factors concerning the proposed 1,000 yard range, I know for certain a very real problem was location. There was no place to put it that wouldn't interfere with existing ranges. Extend the 200/100 yard ranges - cut a major portion of the woods walk area out. Put it on the west side of the ranges - you loose the 3-d archery range they just put in a few years back. The property isn't wide enough to shoot across. Blue Water doesn't have unlimited property. In fact, there isn't much empty room left b/c they have used most of what they have, which is one of the things that make BWSA great - lot's of facilities. Again, not saying there wasn't any FUDD factors, but I know there was some real logistic issues.

    Unless someone wants to give them the $$ to buy the empty property behind them, there just isn't any room.
    happy_gunner
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  6. #26
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    Undoubtedly there were logistical issues. But the 3D archery course consist of a trail through the woods with some PVC stands and the archery range is nothing more than an open field. We're maybe talking about $5,000 of infrastructure that could have been located else where on the property (the real value of the 3D archery course was the targets, which were very expensive, but movable). The woods walk could have also been moved and/or improved - in fact, the plan was to locate the woods walk firing positions along the new berm, which would have made for better backstops anyway.

    Overall, the decision was pound wise and penny foolish. BWSA passed up at least an additional $40k - $60k in profit each year. Which, after law enforcement memberships, would have been the most profitable aspect of the club (other than general member dues). BWSA could have used that money for decades to do improvements to the entire club, like upgrading the clubhouse, paving the parking lot, installing better electric gates, etc. There's a lot of infrastructure at the club that is aging pretty badly, unless BWSA can figure out how to be more profitable, a lot of that stuff simply won't be addressed.

    As a board member, I spent a lot of time developing this and other infrastructure plans for BWSA. Some got implemented, some didn't. The 850yd range didn't work out, but I think this was a passed opportunity for the members. It would have been 'the feature' that separated BWSA from every other club in SE Michigan. The numbers are solid though, that's why you see other entities looking into building such a range.

  7. #27
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    If anyone wants to support this project, it is fully on. This is clearly a Second Amendment issue. We have the same team that won the case to allow shooting ranges in Chicago. We couldn't say much because the pending lawsuit. We can now. Here is the formal complaint. It is strong because we paid for the best team available. Good read for all you legal guys. The link will only be active for a few days.

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qrdat2gpf...nYzxcF4qa?dl=0

    Not a lot of people know what we are planning so here are some of the details. We are planning a 1000 yard and potentially 1300 yard ranges (we have the room) with two additional 300 yard ranges and fifteen 75 yard by 100 yard action bays (3 gun, IDPA, Etc.) our range can potentially support 160 Long range shooters for PRS and Service Rifle and host major matches. We will rarely if ever shut down shooting for recreational shooters due to classes or competition we will have two 1000 yard or 1300 yard ranges divided for that purpose. If you have a free day or half day, come shoot, you'll be able to. Its all within 1 hour from Flint, Lansing, Ann Arbor and most of Detroit and 1.5 hours from Grand Rapids and Saginaw. Memberships are going to be priced about what a premium gym membership would cost and most will see it as high value once they see the amenities and convenience of the range. There will also be open opportunity to use the facility.
    Last edited by Oakland Tactical; 04-12-2019 at 03:14 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BakaLogic View Post
    That's disappointing but understandable. Is there somewhere close to the southeastern area of Michigan (Ypsi, Washtenaw area) that goes beyond 200 yards? Not that I'm ready for it yet but I started setting up a rifle for long range and I'd like to start shooting it out to distance eventually.
    Howell Gun Club has a 300 yard range. You either need to be a member (and must have qualified to use it) or a guest of a qualified member (as a guest, you don't have to qualify). Certainly not 1,000 yards, but definitely "beyond 200 yards".

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