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  1. #1
    I can't post links yet! Forum User
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    Livingston county 1000yd range - OAKLAND TACTICAL PETITION :flag:

    All-
    I was in OAKLAND TACTICAL the other day and on their front desk was a "petition" looking for signatures of those who would like a 1000yd rifle range in Howell twp.

    I dont really know all the details, but apparently the owner of the shop is hoping to build a 1000yd range in Howell and is being blocked by the township board or something like that.

    Just throwing it out there to let people know that if you are in the area stop in, buy something from this guy, and show your support.
    This is something that is really needed in the Michigan Gun community, as it does not currently exist as far as I'm aware.

    Regards

  2. #2
    I am a Forum User
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    Do you have to be a residence of Livingston county?


    Mike

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike72ss View Post
    Do you have to be a residence of Livingston county?


    Mike
    I'd like to know this too. It's about an hour from my house according to Google and I'd drive an hour to sign a petition. A 1000yd range an hour from my house that I may or may not be able to shoot at because it will be crowded with other people looking for a place to shoot long distance is better than no 1000yd range.

  4. #4
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    Good luck. People won't fill the bays at WSC or BWSA regularly to shoot 800 or 600 respectively. But they'll magically support a 1000 yard range in Howel? Will (Recon762WT) tried rallying troops for BWSA to expand their 600 to support 1000yd matches and could barely get enough interest on it. It did finally get to the BoD and fell on dead ears. Lot of people sat on the fence of wait and see what happens with their range. I myself included would have gladly joined rather than shoot as a guest there if they expanded the range. I shoot long range on private property and at times rather the club setting for 600+ ranges, other shooters gathering, social aspects of matches, etc. But there just doesn't seem to be the support for it when the rubber needs to meet the road. Drive to MTC, Camp Perry, etc It'd be nice, but I have little faith it'd come to fruition in Howel.

  5. #5
    I can't post links yet! Forum User
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    That's disappointing but understandable. Is there somewhere close to the southeastern area of Michigan (Ypsi, Washtenaw area) that goes beyond 200 yards? Not that I'm ready for it yet but I started setting up a rifle for long range and I'd like to start shooting it out to distance eventually.

  6. #6
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    Washtenaw Sportsman Club in Ypsi. It's an excellent facility if you haven't checked it out.

  7. #7
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    Oakland tactical wants to change the zoning of the existing agricultural zoned property.It will never get approved especially with all the new subdivisions being built.

  8. #8
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    A Livingston Daily article posted in the Detroit Free Press today on the lawsuit just filed by Oakland Tactical to force zoning approval:

    https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...ge/2585726002/

    Howell Township sued for not allowing gun range
    Sean Bradley, Livingston Daily - January 21, 2019


    Settlement talks are taking place between Howell Township and a Hartland-based firearms store after the store sued the township for denying the store's effort to establish a gun range.

    Oakland Tactical Supply and Livonia resident Scott Fresh, Howell resident Jason Raines, and Rochester Hills resident Matthew Remenar sued the township Nov. 2in U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan.

    Both parties are in active settlement negotiations – a settlement meeting was set for Friday – and have agreed to postpone the deadline for evidence submission for two weeks beginning Feb. 1.

    The parties are being encouraged to work toward an amicable resolution of the problem, Martha Dean, a Connecticut-based attorney representing the store, said in an email Thursday. Howell-based attorney Matthew Hagerty is also representing the store and Fresh, Raines and Remenar.

    "The township and we are doing that now," Dean said. "Given this, any statement to the media would be counterproductive; thus, the plaintiffs have no comment," Dean said.

    A message was left seeking comment with the township's attorney, William Fahey.

    The company argues Howell's Township's ban on rifle ranges and other shooting ranges, is a violation of the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

    "The Second Amendment secures the right to operate and practice with firearms at a range, for purposes including learning about firearms, safely gaining proficiency with firearms, obtaining any training required as a condition of firearms ownership, recreation, hunting, and competition," the lawsuit states. "In order to make possible the exercise of rights thereunder, the Second Amendment protects the right of the people, including Plaintiff, to own, construct, and operate a range for these purposes."

    Oakland Tactical Supply leased 352 acres on Fleming Road in the township to operate one or more outdoor shooting ranges, including a 1,000-yard range and a public access range, according to the lawsuit.

    "Mr. Fresh would like to participate in long-range competitive target shooting; however, he currently would have to travel 4.5 hours to reach a long-distance shooting range," the complaint alleges. "This distance is too far for Mr. Fresh, so he is unable to engage in training in the proficient use of long-range firearms. The range that Oakland wishes to open would be convenient for him for this purpose as well as for practicing target shooting at shorter distances."

    Mike Paige – owner of Oakland Tactical Supply – filed an application on Aug. 29, 2017 to amend the township's zoning ordinance to allow a shooting range on land zoned as agricultural residential.

    The application for amendment was denied by the township board in November of that year because the township's zoning ordinance does not allow for open-air businesses such as shooting ranges on agricultural residential land.

    “We didn’t feel a zoning change would be applicable,” Daus said in November 2017, adding that industrial or commercial is not what the township is looking for in that location in the future. “...residents certainly don’t feel they want it in their backyard. As a zoning change, it doesn’t fit in the master plan.”

    In its response to the lawsuit, the township's attorneys denied many of the claims made against it, argued against them, or asked for them to be proven in court.

    The township argues the Second Amendment does not apply to the plaintiffs' argument that recreational shooting is a "traditional lawful use" of firearms in the U.S. because the township and the State of Michigan do not require training or any time on a gun range for a person to obtain or possess a firearm.

    "Plaintiffs’ argument that there is a legally recognized public demand or need for their proposed use is unfounded and should be rejected because there are many shooting ranges in the state of Michigan," the defense wrote.

    There are seven shooting ranges in Livingston County, according to the Michigan Department of Natural Resources.

    Furthermore, the defense argues the plaintiffs do not have the legal standing to sue the township because the company and the individuals suing do not own the land where the shooting range would be located.

    This is the second federal lawsuit the township is facing.

    This lawsuit was filed less than one month after a separate federal lawsuit over the township's signage moratorium was filed on Oct. 8. The lawsuit, filed by Crossroads Outdoor LLC, alleges the township's zoning ordinance grants the zoning administrator the ability to regulate content of signs, both on and off of a premises.

    The signage lawsuit awaits its next phase as an answer to it from the township is due Jan. 29.
    Martha A. Dean is of counsel to Oakland Tactical.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quads View Post
    Good luck. People won't fill the bays at WSC or BWSA regularly to shoot 800 or 600 respectively. But they'll magically support a 1000 yard range in Howel? Will (Recon762WT) tried rallying troops for BWSA to expand their 600 to support 1000yd matches and could barely get enough interest on it. It did finally get to the BoD and fell on dead ears. Lot of people sat on the fence of wait and see what happens with their range. I myself included would have gladly joined rather than shoot as a guest there if they expanded the range. I shoot long range on private property and at times rather the club setting for 600+ ranges, other shooters gathering, social aspects of matches, etc. But there just doesn't seem to be the support for it when the rubber needs to meet the road. Drive to MTC, Camp Perry, etc It'd be nice, but I have little faith it'd come to fruition in Howel.
    Will and I tried to get an 850 yard range built at Blue Water. It was approved at the BoD meeting in the fall of 2017 but then Will and I and the other major supporters on the BoD lost our bid to get reelected at the Jan 2018 member meeting. So, once out, they reversed course. The real problem is that just about everyone said "Yeah, I'll join the club IF you build the range". That don't cut it folks. We needed to pack the BoD meeting and keep the folks who support these types of ranges in positions where they can make things happen. That means join the club first and pust for it. If everyone of the people who said they would join, actually joined then came to that meeting to vote to keep the folks on the Board who supported the range, you would have an 850 yard range at Blue Water today. And for the record there were only around 175 members out of around 2000 members elegible to vote who actually came out and voted! Yup, it's pure mob rule folks. And this is why you have to drive to MTC or Youngs or where ever to shoot.

    The only way a new long range facility is going to get built is for one to be build at an existing club. The politics of noise and safety today will make it essentially impossible for any "new" range facility to get constructed. Look what the DNR had to go through to get Island Lake built!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quads View Post
    Good luck. People won't fill the bays at WSC or BWSA regularly to shoot 800 or 600 respectively. But they'll magically support a 1000 yard range in Howel? Will (Recon762WT) tried rallying troops for BWSA to expand their 600 to support 1000yd matches and could barely get enough interest on it. It did finally get to the BoD and fell on dead ears. Lot of people sat on the fence of wait and see what happens with their range. I myself included would have gladly joined rather than shoot as a guest there if they expanded the range. I shoot long range on private property and at times rather the club setting for 600+ ranges, other shooters gathering, social aspects of matches, etc. But there just doesn't seem to be the support for it when the rubber needs to meet the road. Drive to MTC, Camp Perry, etc It'd be nice, but I have little faith it'd come to fruition in Howel.
    The issue was that all the people who wanted that range built, were waiting for it to happen PRIOR to joining the club and have a vote that would count. THere was plenty of interest, but not enough of them were voting members. That is why I joined after my first season shooting there, when there were rumors of this happening.

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