Muzzleloader misfire

[David in MI]

My daughter turned 14 this year and decided to purchase a muzzleloader to use for both firearms seasons this year (CVA Optima V2). We put a total of 6 shots through it recently and went out again last night to do some shooting at a longer distance but had a misfire. I've hunted with the same muzzleloader for several years and had one instance of a misfire, or a non-fire I suppose, as the cap went off but didn't ignite the powder. I replaced the cap and it fired. What we experienced last night was a bit odd and I thought someone here may be able to help me understand what happened and how to avoid it in the future (if possible).

History: Fired three shots and cleaned it a week ago. Fired three more shots and didn't clean it as we were going to head out the next day but got tied up and didn't have time. So the barrel was dirty prior to me loading it last night. We were using two 100-grain Hogdon pellets and a Hornady 250 grain bullet (red; sabot?). I believe the primers are Winchester.

Fired the gun and it was a bit louder than a cap going off, but not much. Smoke trail with sparks coming out the barrel and the projectile appeared to land with a trail of smoke within about 20 yards, maybe 15. I'm guessing it was poor ignition but would like to better understand the "why." Muzzleloader was inside the home and came outside so I don't think condensation was the issue.

Any thoughts or insight would be greatly appreciated. And I know, we need to keep the gun clean as the black powder is very caustic. The week just got away from me...

[Rasher]

Flash hole in the BP was/is carboned up would be my guess. Go to youre local smoke shop and pick up some pipe cleaners Im told they work great, I have used a drill bit just turning it with my fingers.

[10x25mm]

The compressed black powder substitute pellets can fail to ignite if the surface facing the flash hole is wetted, oily, or obstructed by residue from previous shots pushed down between the flash hole and the rear pellet.

[David in MI]

Thanks Rasher & 10x25mm. I figured it had to do with the powder residue.

[sadaddy]

I would guess condensation compromised the powder charge. If you were outside shooting in 30-45 degree temps and then brought the gun in, that's enough to do it. Black powder substitutes are pretty intolerant of any moisture.

[Roundballer]

Lets analyze this from know facts.

The pellets and projectile did in fact get expelled when the primer was fired. That rules out a blocked ignition channel.

The propellant did not ignite. That says that there was insufficient heat reaching the propellant. The cause of that is what needs to be corrected. It could be moisture, oil, or something else that damped the volatility of the propellant, i.e. the pellets themselves absorbed moisture when brought in from the cold. Some BP substitute pellets do require a "hotter" primer for consistent ignition than the typical 209 shotgun primer.

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Now, reading this portion several times:

Fired the gun and it was a bit louder than a cap going off, but not much. Smoke trail with sparks coming out the barrel and the projectile appeared to land with a trail of smoke within about 20 yards, maybe 15. I'm guessing it was poor ignition but would like to better understand the "why." Muzzleloader was inside the home and came outside so I don't think condensation was the issue.

You are describing exactly what would happen if you had "dry-balled" the damn thing, that is you skipped the "pellets" portion of the load.

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Now in the interests of safety and enjoy-ability of this for your daughter, GO READ THE DAMN MANUAL!

You are loading this thing at %133 of the MAXIMUM SAFE load recommendation of 150 grains of BP or the same of a substitute measured by volume.

Just a point of burn rates, with the shorter barrels of these Polycarbonatestockedstainlesssteelbarreled209prime dinlineactionmuzzleloaderinnameonlywithnotradition muzzle loaders (and all short barreled or "plains" style rifles) there is only enough barrel to burn about 80 gr of propellant, no matter what propellant you are using. Anything above that is just increasing recoil with out any other gains.
Either cut your pellets back to just 1 100gr load or go out and buy a can of powder and an adjustable powder measure and work up a good accurate load for the beast.

[10x25mm]

Do 209 primers have enough energy to drive a sabotted projectile out of a bore without some powder ignition? Not an expert here; my experience is with Minie projectiles and patched round balls. Neither are driven out of a rifled bore by percussion caps alone.

Also, would 209 primers create a smoke trail behind the projectile without some powder being ignited? Never seen sparks come from the barrel of shotguns when a dry load was fired on the trap and skeet fields at night. And while the shot usually clears the bore of a 12 gauge when a cartridge loaded without powder is fired, the wad never does. Why most skeet and trap fields have a wood knockout rod handy.

Both are possible with a dry load, but not likely. Think a little powder in the rear pellet grudgingly ignited. Not likely a dry load.

Hodgdon black powder substitute pellets are currently available in 30, 50 and 60 grain weights, but not 100 grains. So it is likely that David loaded 100 grains total, not two 100 grain pellets. The CVA website says their Optima V2 rifle is capable of handling 100 grains, suggesting that it is the maximum. But their owner's manual puts the limit at 150 grains for this rifle.

All this said, this kind of incident is why I prefer loose powder to pellets in muzzleloaders. Loose powder is still susceptible to water and oil, but not accumulated fouling. Pellets tend to drive inert fouling in front of themselves when they are rammed home, putting it right over the flash hole, obstructing the flash. Loose powder falls right by fouling and the shot packs the inert fouling in front of the powder, away from the flash hole.

[red442joe]

You are loading this thing at %133 of the MAXIMUM SAFE load recommendation of 150 grains of BP or the same of a substitute measured by volume.

Oh Feck!! I missed this part in the OP; I read it as Two pellets for a total of 100 grains.(thinking 50 grain pellets like I load)
Hopefully he meant the two pellets for 100 grains total. I can't imagine shooting my CVA inline with 200 grains of black-sub.

You said "dry-balled" hehehe hic snort!

Joe

[xtrema312]

Are you talking about Triple 7 pellets?

I don't like pellets. They might be convenient, but I've never found them to offer the most uniform combustion and accuracy. I found loose powder to be far superior.

If we're talking about Triple 7 powder, I found consistent issues with the residue from that powder flaking off during between shot cleaning and loading. That flaking residue can drop into the base of the barrel and plug the flash hole on an inline sufficiently to prevent powder ignition. I've seen it a dozen times. I initially figured this out after it happened multiple times after about 3-4 shots. My process before changing to Buckhorn 209 was to do my between shot cleaning and then tip the barrel down and give it a good bump to shake out the loose particles. I never had an issue again after doing that.

I've never seen a 209 primer blow a powder charge and saboted projectile out of a muzzleloader. It usually doesn't move it more than a couple inches. This particular instance sounds a bit more like moisture causing the pellet to fizzle and do a very slow partial ignition, but it could be related to partially blocked flash hole delaying the ignition. I would say you're fortunate that the 209 primer didn't displace the charge and then ignite it causing it to expand in an open chamber area between the breech plug and the pellets. That could have been the negative experience.

[SIX29]

2 weeks ago, I had some problem with CVA OPTIMA. Load:2 50gr triple 7 pellets, 250gr hornady 45 cal sabot. CCI 209. Had fired 4 previous shots, swabbing barrel after each shot.
When had the miss fire projectile went about 40 yards reminded me of a "dud Roman candle". I believe it was caused by moisture left in barrel from swabbing.

The above mention scenario, sounds like condensation in barrel.

I always run a few caps thru a barrel, before I load fire the first each day.