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  1. #1
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    Question Small Gauge Turkish Doubles - Any Good?

    My little sister has finally decided that she wants to take up skeet shooting. My long time advocacy did not do the trick, but one of her girlfriends is organizing an informal skeet circle down in Virginia, where she lives. She did not hesitate to ask her older brother, however, to kit her out with the gear needed to kill off Virgina's abundant skeet population.

    I am thinking a 20 gauge or 28 gauge double gun would be ideal. Tube sets in big 12 gauge guns suffice for my occasional small gauge skeet shooting, but this would probably be too heavy for her. Want to keep her fired up! The Ruger Red Label in 28 gauge would be my first choice, if it were still made. Don't want to get her an orphan, she may shoot quite a bit and skeet guns eventually need tightening and spare parts. The automatic safety on the Red Label has always been a source of frustration, as well.

    It appears that the Turks are making more small gauge doubles, in more variations, than anyone else. Several are light and handy, just what I am looking for. A couple of guys at my club shoot Turkish double guns in 12 gauge with some success, but none so far have turned up with a small gauge Turkish double. Small gauge doubles seem to be a world of their own.

    Are they popular just because they are cheap, or do they work well? Are they durable? Is there a particular Turkish manufacturer which stands out? Am I overlooking other options?

  2. #2
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    Check out Stoeger Condors, they have a 20ga. Youth O/U that gets good reviews. #ST31036 about $400, or cheaper at Buds, if you can find one in stock.

  3. #3
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    I'd go a step up from the Stoeger and get one of the CZ models, probably the Redhead. Depending on her stature, they even make models for smaller people (shorter LOP and barrels). The CZ's are a good compromise between the cheap doubles and Berettas/Brownings. I believe that the majority of them are made in Turkey, but I may be mistaken. You can pick one up for less than a grand.

  4. #4
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    The Turkish guns seem to get a very bad rap from people within the target Clays community. I believe a lot of it is unfair and unjust. She probably isn't a shooter that is going to shoot tens of thousands of rounds per year. A Turkish over and under will probably do just fine. I personally would avoid the 28 gauge due to ammo prices. A 20-gauge quite honestly shoots basically just as soft. I think the brands mentioned are good choices. Maybe even look at TriStar. With shotguns fit is everything so I would be prepared to spend some extra money on custom stock work with whatever you get. For that there is an excellent local source look up Tron stockworks. He is in Milford and does awesome work.

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  5. #5
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    Maybe even look at the Stoeger Condor competition. I just remembered that model and I am pretty sure they make it in a 20 gauge. It comes with a fully adjustable stock and they are worth their weight in gold on a shotgun. If memory serves me correctly that model is only around $700

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  6. #6
    Stick to 20ga, ammo can be purchased anywhere at a decent price.

    I have an older Stoeger Condor Supreme that I've never had any issues with, currently my son is using that as his skeet and sporting gun.

    I think there are 3 or 4 kids on our shooting team with newer Stoegers, two had significant issues. The factory replaced one of them. There is only one CZ, no problems.

    Too be honest, I'd probably be looking at semi-auto models Beretta A300's for less than $1,000, A400's less than $2,000. I believe they all come with drop, cast and pitch adjustment shims.

    Gun fit is going to be the most important item to address. Shotguns misfit everyone except for a 5'10" male weighing 160lbs. Most women need a pitch adjustment to keep the gun from kicking up into their cheek.

  7. #7
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    Here is my two cents:

    A). I went with a stoger condor for my first hunting/clays gun. I think I originally paid around $500 for a 12ga / 20ga barrel set shotgun. I had it for about a decade before I passed it down to my brother-in-law this past fall. For the most part, it shot every time I pulled the trigger. Sometime the second barrel would fail to reset if I had a weak position (the second firing pin is set by recoil), and this might have happened 2/100 shots. I probably put between 500 - 1,000 rounds through it per year. It was heavy and not as ascetically pleasing as the higher priced guns, but it served its purpose. I'm sure it will last for a long time to come. Money well spent.

    B.) This year I purchased a CZ X/X Bobtail 12ga. It was around $1,000. It has much nicer finishes than the stoger, but still basically accomplishes the same objective "it goes bang." It breaks clays and puts down birds just like the stoger . . . it just looks nicer doing it and has some better features. On that note, in my opinion, the CZ's are priced well below comparable models (this basically applies across the board for their pistols and rifles as well). I think the comparison is easier to make with their pistols. If you took a CZ SP-01 Tactical and it said "Colt" on the side, the pistol would cost upwards of $1,000 instead of the normal $650 that the SP-01 retails for. Its the same thing with their rifles and shotguns. I took a look at the CZ Field Supreme and at $1,700 it easily competes with shotguns that cost $500 - $1000 more. CZ is a great value for the money!

    Parting comment. Checkout Pacific Sporting Arms East in Walled Lake. They have hundreds of high end shotguns. They range from around $1,500 to north of $100k (which is clearly out of the price range for what your are talking about). But the biggest thing is the guys in the shop can point you in the right direction. I went in and talked about wanting the next step up from the CZ and they pointed me towards the Citori or Silver pigeon (which I had already anticipated would be the case). They didn't try to up sell me. In fact, the clerk was pretty transparent in saying that what dictates the price of a shotgun is finishes and features; but price does not determine how accurate you will be, only shooting and practicing will do that. Hence why I routinely get smoked by the local 4H kid who shoots thousands upon thousands of rounds per year with his remington 870, he'd continue to beat me no matter what shotgun I used.

  8. #8
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    CZ canvasback 20 is alot of gun for the money. Like all new guns it felt stiff out of the box, made worse by the fact that it's a 2nd tier gun no question. But well balanced and points where it should. Light enough to carry all day but recoil is nada. Shot a 25/25 from the 17 yard line first day with it, the rest were low 20s. It's better than I am.

  9. #9
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    "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt".

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  10. #10
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    I have a CZ Redhead .410; shoots great.
    The bad rap on Turk guns comes from folks comparing them to Berettas at 2x - 3x the cost.

    Good value especially for newer shooters in subgauge who can't sink $2K+ into a new gun.

    [PS CZ shotguns are Turkish Huglus.]

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