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  1. #1

    Will a PSA 10.5" AR15 pistol give me any headaches for a CPL car pistol?

    There are a couple of 5+ page dumpster fire threads on this subject. Most include the old laws.

    Will this: https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...t-sba3-pk.html work out as a pistol in Michigan? Or should I go for a 8.5" pistol kit? Just wanting to take advantage of PSA memorial day sales. I want as long of a barrel as I can get, but still have a legal PISTOL for CPL.

    TYVM for any info.

    - Joe

  2. #2
    MGO Member Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
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    I built a AR PDW (7.5”). OAL from collapsed brace (which is the same as back of buffer tube with the Maxim) to the end of the barrel without muzzle device is something like 18”. With the brace fully extended, and measuring from the end of the muzzle device (a long flash can) its 26.4”.


    I did register this as a pistol.

    I will not carry this IAW my CPL privileges.


    In my mind all it takes is one uninformed or a-hole cop to measure it his own way to find it over 26” and cause you to hire Shyster to get the charge dropped. Or have the pistol confiscated because it’s an “unregistered” pistol (Inkster) and be out the $800 it’s worth plus the $250 ticket.



    In practicality, if you’re in the kind of feces sandwich that would require the firepower of an AR pistol, it takes all of 5 seconds to pull it out of its storage bag and slam a mag in it. The pistol in your waistband would be much more practical to fight your way out of an immediate threat from or in your vehicle....or at least let you fight your way to the AR.


    JMHO IANAL YMMV



    I’ve heard that a 10.5” barrel with a SBA3 gets you right under 26” without a muzzle device.

    PSA refused to sell me a 10.5” KS47 (AR that takes AK mags) because it was just over 26” (with or without the flash hider, IDK), because they interpreted the MSP update as anything with a barrel under 16” and over 26” OAL in MI an SBR in MI and illegal. “You may or may not interpret the law as we do, but for our safety and yours our legal team has come to this conclusion”
    Last edited by Fuel Fire Desire; 05-24-2019 at 08:21 PM.

  3. #3
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    10.5” barrel with an SBA3 brace (collapsed) is less than 26” to the end of the barrel.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Michaelk View Post
    10.5” barrel with an SBA3 brace (collapsed) is less than 26” to the end of the barrel.
    Thank you! That is about all I really needed to know. Short brace or blade. Muzzle device doesn't count unless permanently attached. I will pull the trigger on a 10.5" then. $349, then another $49 for the PSA Deplorables lower. I'll be happy
    - Joe

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuel Fire Desire View Post
    I built a AR PDW (7.5”). OAL from collapsed brace (which is the same as back of buffer tube with the Maxim) to the end of the barrel without muzzle device is something like 18”. With the brace fully extended, and measuring from the end of the muzzle device (a long flash can) its 26.4”.


    I did register this as a pistol.

    I will not carry this IAW my CPL privileges.


    In my mind all it takes is one uninformed or a-hole cop to measure it his own way to find it over 26” and cause you to hire Shyster to get the charge dropped. Or have the pistol confiscated because it’s an “unregistered” pistol (Inkster) and be out the $800 it’s worth plus the $250 ticket.



    In practicality, if you’re in the kind of feces sandwich that would require the firepower of an AR pistol, it takes all of 5 seconds to pull it out of its storage bag and slam a mag in it. The pistol in your waistband would be much more practical to fight your way out of an immediate threat from or in your vehicle....or at least let you fight your way to the AR.


    JMHO IANAL YMMV



    I’ve heard that a 10.5” barrel with a SBA3 gets you right under 26” without a muzzle device.

    PSA refused to sell me a 10.5” KS47 (AR that takes AK mags) because it was just over 26” (with or without the flash hider, IDK), because they interpreted the MSP update as anything with a barrel under 16” and over 26” OAL in MI an SBR in MI and illegal. “You may or may not interpret the law as we do, but for our safety and yours our legal team has come to this conclusion”
    This is the entire dumpster fire type of answer I was trying to avoid. I just wanted a simple answer of "is this legal". Our Michigan laws for these are so convoluted that I think they took lessons from the IRS on creating them. I'm just trying to stay under 26" with, a 10.5 barrel, and I'll call the rest good..
    - Joe
    Last edited by joelansing; 05-24-2019 at 08:46 PM.

  6. #6
    MGO Member Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelansing View Post
    Thank you! That is about all I really needed to know. Short brace or blade. Muzzle device doesn't count unless permanently attached. I will pull the trigger on a 10.5" then. $349, then another $49 for the PSA Deplorables lower. I'll be happy
    - Joe

    You’re doing yourself a favor. The 7.5” I have (and 8.5”) is obnoxious. Loads of fun....but holy concussion Batman, and muzzle flash like what’s in my avatar even with a can. 10.5” pistols are more tame.

    My PSA builds have been 100% for me too. I have about 1000 through my PSA 7.5” with no functional issues. I would recommend putting loctite on the gas block detent screws. I had one fall out (luckily into my hand) while firing. The other one was loose as well.

  7. #7
    MGO Member Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelansing View Post
    This is the entire dumpster fire type of answer I was trying to avoid. I just wanted a simple answer of "is this legal". Our Michigan laws for these are so convoluted that I think they took lessons from the IRS on creating them. I'm just trying to stay under 26", and I'll call the rest good..
    - Joe

    This is Michigan. There is no black and white “this is legal” because we have it nowhere in MCL how to measure an AR pistol, except a AG opinion from 1986, and what the operators on the MSP firearms division help line are telling us this month. (I called twice, got two different people, both said end of buffer tube, to end of barrel, shortest fireable configuration)


    Trust me.....I know it’s frustrating and convoluted. I was so pissed off and frustrated with the dumpster fires and differing opinions and lack of “this is legal” that I was really close to just abandoning the entire project.


    .....the dumpster fires that really got to me were the ones where people went back and forth on if you needed to register an assembled AR pistol or not...

  8. #8
    I really wanted write a long reply here. But I'm not creating another dumpster fire. TYVM for the info provided. This https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...t-sba3-pk.html will work for me. Should end up under 26 inches..
    - Joe
    Last edited by joelansing; 05-24-2019 at 09:37 PM.

  9. #9
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    Not to agree with FFD, because he/she has been pushing that paranoia angle for over a year straight...
    but I'd try to get one with a handguard that doesn't extend beyond the muzzle. a 10.5" barrel and a buffer tube is going to be pretty close to 25-25.5". While the gun can easily operate without the handguard, I wouldn't count on a cop pulling out a the hex wrenches and removing it before measuring the OAL.
    If you had a run in with officer mcgrumpy, it might not go well if the handguard pushed over 26". Take my word for it when I say that cops do NOT know gun laws very well, and you don't want to spend months in court fighting the incorrect interpretations of prosecutors.
    And yes, I have an old grandfathered MIPistol that is also an SBR that measures in at just barely under 26" with the stock and muzzle device. and a shotgun too... I'm happy to put either one of those in my passenger seat. but my ACTUAL pistol that has a 10.5" barrel with an extended handguard gets treated more like a rifle.

    sorry to throw a little more gas on the dumpster fire you didn't want.
    DISCLAIMER: Disclaimer. The opinions expressed in this post are those of the author, DrScaryGuy. They do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of MGO, its board of directors, or its members.

  10. #10
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    That was one of my questions I had when I purchased the same upper as the poster. Would they take the handguard into consideration because it extends past the barrel with the muzzle devise removed. I did register it as a pistol but thought about this and in the end I treat it as a firearm and not a pistol. It's just a range toy so its cased too and from the range.

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