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  1. #1
    MGO Member Ol` Joe's Avatar
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    Handgun red dot ideas needed

    I'm in the market for a red dot to mount on a Marvel Unit 1 22lr conversion. I'm not interested in seeing how expensive a sight I can buy, but the best quality $200-$300 street priced sight which #1 fits my budget and #2 needs. This is strictly a range toy, I don't compete with the gun. The majority of use it sees is paper, although steels or bounce targets do get played with on occasion too.
    Presently I am looking at the Vortex Venom or Sig Romeo 1 and, at the moment I am leaning toward the 3MOA reticule due to its finer aiming point and smaller target coverage. I also have a bit of astigmatism and am thinking the smaller dot may be a bit sharper to my eye? Weight and balance matters, I do not want a "tube sight".

    Is there any notable reliability difference in the 2 sights mentioned?

    How positive are the adjustments and, does one seem to be better at holding adjustment? Both appear from what I've read to be 1MOA/click?

    This is my 1st "dot" sight and I am also curious as to how they handle parallax? Are they truly free of it or is there a minor amount around the edges?


    Any thoughts, tips or hints you might have you think I would be interested in feel free to offer them.
    "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt".

    The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray

  2. #2
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    Hey Old Joe:

    I run a bullseye team and have a lot of experience with red dot sights. Have a question for you.


    Why not the tube sight?


    With the IDPA, ipsic, and the other run and gunners, the shoot and scoot people run the reflex sight and the C-More is the one that is most prevalent, well, it was a couple years ago when I was doing that. You do see a number of tube red dots in the shoot and scoot too. On the Bullseye competition line and at camp perry, the tube style sight is the predominate red dot. Personally, I strongly prefer the tube style sight and did pretty good in IDPA and ipsic.

    I have zeroed a couple of vortex venom reflex sights and they did not track well when zeroing. that is, do a couple clicks, no movement in poi, a couple clicks, no movement, then a couple more clicks and a heck of a lot of movement. a lot of slack in the adjustment screws that took a lot of time and ammo to get zeroed. I figured about 5 or six clicks or slack to adjust the poi the other way.

    If you were to go with a tube style sight, I would recommend the Ultra Dot Match Dot II. Multiple dot sizes and it is within your price range. lifetime warranty just save your receipt. Get them from Ultra Dot directly, cheapest price I have found and fast shipping. I personally own four ultra dot match dot sights, two with the 4 MOA dot and two with the variable size dot.

  3. #3
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    Continued from above

    The advantages of the reflex style sight is that the sight picture is less cluttered with the frame of the sight. Most reflexes are lighter weight too.

    The advantage of the tube style sight is that shooters that use the tube style sight use the frame of the sight to align the firearm and obtain the dot in rapid fire. You also have the ability to add sun shades on the front and back when the sun is low on the horizon. Polarizing filters are available (standard on the ultra dot match dot II) as well.

    Dot size:

    Bullseye shooters prefer a 2 or 4 MOA dot with a slight majority with the 4 MOA dot. A few like the 6 or larger dot but not that many. Shoot and Scooters like the 6 and 8 moa or even larger dot.


    If you are in the Lansing area, I have a number of competition guns and would love to meet you at the range so you can get a idea what a tube style sight is like.

    Shoot me a pm if you are interested.

    REgards,
    Cranky

  4. #4
    MGO Member Ol` Joe's Avatar
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    Cranky thanks for the offer to see how you’ve got yours set up, but I don’t think I’ll make it your way, I might reconsider the tube sights though. My 1st thoughts on them was added weight and a change in balance to the top. I have a scoped Roger Super Blackhawk and it seems the sights dbl the weight and give it a unwieldy feeling in the hand. I like the feel of the 1911 as is and am trying to stay with that.
    I also thank you for your observations on the Vortex sight, that is the kind of problem I am hoping to avoid. I take it since most competition shooters you know avoid these sights they are also finding function or reliability problems with them too?
    "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt".

    The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray

  5. #5
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    Hey old joe:



    I have lots of experience with the tube style sights and some experience with the cheap reflex dots that so many beginning shooters show up with but not so much with the higher quality reflex sights.

    Sometimes the slop is manageable as with that vortex I worked with on Tuesday. 5 clicks of slop plus three clicks when going from 25 to 50 yards. Not too bad if that is your only red dot and you do not adjust it often.

    I have convinced a number of newbies to toss their no name dot and borrow one of my extras while they got a quality product.

    Check out the weight of some of the new tube style sights vs a reflex and a scope.

    Personally I prefer the 1 inch tubes against the larger 30 mm tubes for the handling reasons. Most newbie want the bigger sight picture but gravitate to the smaller sight after a couple of years.

    Even though I generally or primarily shoot 22lr, the cost of the scope pales in comparison to the monthly ammo costs.

    Regards,
    Cranky

  6. #6
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    If you want to check out the best red dot, check out the aimpoints. I own three aimpoints and my primary competition gun now sports a aimpoint micro with a Kodiak pardini base with the Kodiak press on sunshades. It is a incredible scope.

    I checked with one of my teammates and he uses a doctor reflex scope. He said that for a reflex, get the doctor or the leupold. He also said that you should not waste your money or time with a mediocre scope, something that I agree wholeheartedly.

    Regards, Cranky

  7. #7
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    Joe, I don't know where you're located but I'm in the western 'burbs and if you want to shoot an Ultradot on an M41, we can get together. PM me if you like.

  8. #8
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    Similarly, if you're in the I75/M59 area or cross paths with my random travels around SE Mi, I'd be happy to let you tinker with my Glock 19 with its Holosun 507c dot. While I'm new to the dot.pistol game, and not near the experience of most, I've been happy with this. I built it as a range toy without intentions of competing, etc. with it. The price point is right, it's fun, seems to work well, etc. I went with the Holosun due to the same footprint as the triji, sans triji price point and a potential second life for the milled slide should have I hated it. All the reviews I read were excellent, and I played with one as the range prior to purchasing and liked the fit, feel, functionality, controls, etc of the Holosun.

    I wander anywhere from Williams to Westland, and Highland to Chesterfield. Let me know if I can help.

  9. #9
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    Ol' Joe, don't know where your doghouse is, but would be glad to loan you one of my Ultra Dots.
    Two of my 1" 4MOA's are setting here with the rings on them. The least I can do for a fellow Marvel fan.
    PM if interested, I'm Downriver, but might make it to Novi show this weekend.

  10. #10
    MGO Member Ol` Joe's Avatar
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    John, Cranky and the rest of you that answered thanks for your thoughts and offers. I ended up this last week going with a Vortex Razor that should serve my needs. I’m not shooting competition, I use this as a range and plinking toy.
    Cranky you are correct about one thing, the adjustments leave a little to be desired. This sight is tough to adjust, there is no “feel” to the screw to tell you how much you have moved. There are hash marks on the housing, but no witness mark on the screw either so you need to really pay attention to want you are doing. Other then that I’m happy with it so far. The glass is very clear, it sits low, is light weight, and I managed to get it within my price range.
    Again, thanks to all that replied.
    "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt".

    The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray

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