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Firearms Legal Protection

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  1. #11
    MGO LIFE Member XDM 40 cal's Avatar
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    Agreed with Roundball, State and Federally it's a Firearm. Over 26.
    Last edited by XDM 40 cal; 06-29-2019 at 12:03 PM.
    NRA Life member, NRARSO, Howell Gun Club member, MDFI Alum 2019 & 2020, 2023 GOA Life Member. MGO life member.

  2. #12
    MGO LIFE Member XDM 40 cal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Co. 3/75 View Post
    An AR15 stripped lower is neither a rifle nor pistol. It *should* be marked "Other" on the 4473:



    I don't know how common it is, but I'm sure at least once in history, an FFL checked the wrong box. If an FFL mistakenly checked "Rifle" for a S&W M&P Shield, does that mean it is a rifle?

    For the very unique situation of an AR lower, which can be built into a Pistol, "Firearm" or Rifle, the ATF Technology Branch absolutely does consider what was done to the virgin lower during the build:

    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]

    As far as the RI-60 "Felony" of "Material False Statement", my due diligence of the matter failed to find any prosecutions for putting "Built from parts kit" in that box, or if that would even be considered as a "Material False Statement" even if it is incorrect to do so. I realize this is a huge controversy every time it is brought up - if the multi-page threads on the various MI gun related forums is any indication, LOL!

    I personally would still do it again if I was building something 26" or less, versus taking the Misdemeanor for not registering a Pistol. I can't fathom a guilty verdict for doing everything possible to notify the sate that you have a pistol - but hey, stranger things have happened, do what your rank can handle
    I've over the years have heard of MSP or local Leo's say to Sign as the seller and buyer, IE like someone bringing in pistols that are not Michigan bought. Now live in Mich. and need to reg. them with the state. Now with the "build from parts" to reg. the AR pistol is accepted, It really comes down to can you afford to pay 250 for unregistered firearms and could the state take away your firearm? I'd refer to Legal counsel for advise on this. All the stripped lowers I ever marked were "Other" ... Unless they are buying a complete Pistol ...
    NRA Life member, NRARSO, Howell Gun Club member, MDFI Alum 2019 & 2020, 2023 GOA Life Member. MGO life member.

  3. #13
    I am a Forum User
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Co. 3/75 View Post
    As far as the RI-60 "Felony" of "Material False Statement", my due diligence of the matter failed to find any prosecutions for putting "Built from parts kit" in that box, or if that would even be considered as a "Material False Statement" even if it is incorrect to do so. I realize this is a huge controversy every time it is brought up - if the multi-page threads on the various MI gun related forums is any indication, LOL!
    It's not about the "Seller Information" section. It's about the "Buyer Information" section. You are completing the RI-060 and placing your own name in the "Purchaser Information" section and signing it as the "Purchaser". Ownership was previously transferred to you when the ATF Form 5300.0 (4473) was completed. Explain to me how you 'purchase' something from yourself when you already own it?

  4. #14
    MGO Member Roundballer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDM 40 cal View Post
    Agreed with Roundball, State and Federally it's a Firearm. Over 26.
    That is not exactly what I said.
    In Michigan, if it is over 26" and does not have any other defining features (shoulder stock), then it is a "firearm". Michigan also has no laws about a VFG.

    The feds don't limit the OAL length of a pistol. They instead depend on the configuration of the stocks and the concept that it was designed to be fired by the use of one hand. They also use "firearm" as all inclusive and a catchall for anything that doesn't fit another definition. When Franklin Armory came out with a "short barreled" AR based "firearm" that came with a VFG and was just over 26" OAL, the feds approved and classified it as a "firearm". They also warned to not ever try to conceal it.


    Life Member, NRA, Lapeer County Sportsmen's Club Disclaimer: I Am Not A Lawyer. Opinions expressed are not representative of any organization to which I may belong, and are solely mine. Any natural person or legal entity reading this post accepts all responsibility for any actions undertaken by that person or entity, based upon what they perceived was contained in this post, and shall hold harmless this poster, his antecedents, and descendants, in perpetuity.

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