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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
    Do you put Chevrolet or Dodge on par with Lexus or Porsche? Of course not. Does that mean Chevrolet and Dodge vehicles are all pieces of garbage? Of course not.
    All depends on perspective, and intended use. A PSA rifle and a Daniel Defense will both be fun at the range. One I'd be willing to bet my life on right out of the box no questions asked, the other I wouldn't. One will have superior fit and finish, much better quality control, hold it's value, handle better to a certain degree depending on build type, and one will not.

    After my experience with one of their assembled uppers, I would not buy another unless it was just for a range toy. I'm not saying PSA is garbage, I'm just advocating that if one has the money it's better to get something a little nicer especially if it's the only AR they might buy, which was the OP's original context around this question.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreaseMonkeySRT View Post
    All depends on perspective, and intended use. A PSA rifle and a Daniel Defense will both be fun at the range. One I'd be willing to bet my life on right out of the box no questions asked, the other I wouldn't. One will have superior fit and finish, much better quality control, hold it's value, handle better to a certain degree depending on build type, and one will not.

    After my experience with one of their assembled uppers, I would not buy another unless it was just for a range toy. I'm not saying PSA is garbage, I'm just advocating that if one has the money it's better to get something a little nicer especially if it's the only AR they might buy, which was the OP's original context around this question.
    How many AR lowers and uppers have you built?

    How many AR lowers and uppers have you built besides those?

    And by "built" I mean more than assembling an upper and lower using the pivot and takedown pins.

    Be honest.

    I've built the vast majority of the AR platform rifles I own, and have built others. I have brands across the rainbow. I would bet my life on anything that I have built myself WELL before I would bet my life on something someone else built.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
    How many AR lowers and uppers have you built?

    How many AR lowers and uppers have you built besides those?

    And by "built" I mean more than assembling an upper and lower using the pivot and takedown pins.

    Be honest.

    I've built the vast majority of the AR platform rifles I own, and have built others. I have brands across the rainbow. I would bet my life on anything that I have built myself WELL before I would bet my life on something someone else built.
    I don't know off hand, but plenty. About 8-10 if I had to guess, but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything here that I've stated. I'm not sure why you're so hell bent on convincing everyone that PSA is so awesome, other than the fact you're an authorized dealer for them. I had a bad experience with an upper that they assembled. It's evident just by the BCG it's very cheap as well as the fact it's inaccurate as hell. Others have had issues as well, as I'm sure others have had issues with other manufacturers too. I don't have a problem with them, I just wouldn't buy one from them again. That's been my experience, regardless of what their actual PPM is compared to another manufacturer or whatever. Some of their parts are probably just fine. But as always, there's a reason other manufacturers sell parts or complete rifles that cost more and it all just isn't because of the name.

  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
    How many AR lowers and uppers have you built?

    How many AR lowers and uppers have you built besides those?

    And by "built" I mean more than assembling an upper and lower using the pivot and takedown pins.

    Be honest.

    I've built the vast majority of the AR platform rifles I own, and have built others. I have brands across the rainbow. I would bet my life on anything that I have built myself WELL before I would bet my life on something someone else built.
    OK, I gotta ask why, why so much confidence.

    Even if you built 200, or 500, that would put you at a couple weeks work at any of the sorta big name joints out there, maybe less. Maybe they throw them at you right out of the gate at dpms, cmmg, bushmaster, LMT etc.

    How can you be so much better than someone who worked for 20 years doing this ?

  5. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
    If you produce 1,000,000 items and 5,000 of them are defective, your PPM is 20

    If you produce 10,000 items and only 500 are defective, your PPM is ... 20.

    Using PPM alone, some would say these two companies would have identical quality.

    But which one will be perceived as having worse product quality, the one with 5,000 customers with problems, or the one with 500 customers with problems? Yea, that.

    With 10x as many people complaining, the use of PPM is meaningless as a measure of overall quality when it comes to who's crying on the Interwebz about their defective rifle.
    its not meaningless, its the same.

    That means something to me.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtmcgirt76239 View Post
    its not meaningless, its the same.

    That means something to me.
    It's not meaningless when evaluated with a variety of OTHER factors and measures.

    But using PPM as the sole factor to determine quality of a product? No way.

    That's what I was trying to say.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreaseMonkeySRT View Post
    I don't know off hand, but plenty. About 8-10 if I had to guess, but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything here that I've stated.
    If you're going present yourself as qualified enough to judge something, you should at least have a little experience with it. Simply owning a few cars doesn't qualify me as an expert mechanic nor does it mean I'm qualified to determine the quality of the components that comprise the vehicle.

    I'm not sure why you're so hell bent on convincing everyone that PSA is so awesome, other than the fact you're an authorized dealer for them. I had a bad experience with an upper that they assembled.
    So since you built a couple of them and it didn't work out, that means everything they make is garbage?

    It's evident just by the BCG it's very cheap as well as the fact it's inaccurate as hell.
    So it's a fact that every PSA rifle is inaccurate? Love to see all the empirical data you collected for that doozie.

    What an inaccurate POS.
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    Others have had issues as well, as I'm sure others have had issues with other manufacturers too. I don't have a problem with them, I just wouldn't buy one from them again. That's been my experience, regardless of what their actual PPM is compared to another manufacturer or whatever. Some of their parts are probably just fine.
    Except that, according to your expert opinion, PSA is garbage. Or at least that's what you were saying and eluding to before your last post.

    But as always, there's a reason other manufacturers sell parts or complete rifles that cost more and it all just isn't because of the name.
    There sure is. Marketing is very expensive.

    I'm not trying to convince everyone that PSA is awesome. But you're most certainly trying to convince everything that, unless you spend $3,000+ on a DD rifle, your (PSA) rifle MUST be a piece of crap.

    For the sake of our friendship, I'm done with this. You're welcome to go back to PSA bashing now ...

    </unsubscribe>

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
    If you're going present yourself as qualified enough to judge something, you should at least have a little experience with it. Simply owning a few cars doesn't qualify me as an expert mechanic nor does it mean I'm qualified to determine the quality of the components that comprise the vehicle.

    So since you built a couple of them and it didn't work out, that means everything they make is garbage?

    So it's a fact that every PSA rifle is inaccurate? Love to see all the empirical data you collected for that doozie.

    What an inaccurate POS.
    Name:  psa.jpg
Views: 166
Size:  9.7 KB

    Except that, according to your expert opinion, PSA is garbage. Or at least that's what you were saying and eluding to before your last post.

    There sure is. Marketing is very expensive.

    I'm not trying to convince everyone that PSA is awesome. But you're most certainly trying to convince everything that, unless you spend $3,000+ on a DD rifle, your (PSA) rifle MUST be a piece of crap.

    For the sake of our friendship, I'm done with this. You're welcome to go back to PSA bashing now ...

    </unsubscribe>
    I'm calling a spade a spade. Didn't say they're all junk, didn't say they are the next best thing to sliced bread as you do either. The fact you believe marketing is the only thing that separates PSA from other manufacturers is insanely laughable. I simply shared my experience and based on my experience alone I'd rather spend a couple hundred more for something better. That's all. You also keep missing the fact I bought an ASSEMBLED lower. It didn't function at first and is not accurate. I'm sure if I strip and rebuild it, that might fix it. But that still didn't chance the fact the BCG is cheaply made, the hand guard has visible tooling marks and inconsistent coating, or that the hand guard screws were loose.

    You're taking this that personally? It's a gun company, not your family. Chill out.
    Last edited by GreaseMonkeySRT; 07-30-2019 at 06:29 PM.

  9. #79
    Not all DD were bought for $3,000.

    I know people that bought them at AIM for 1050-1110 for ddm4 v2, and price crept up over the years.

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