Welcome to MGO's Internet Discussion Forums…Please Consider Becoming a Dues-Paying Member of the ORG…Click >>>>>HERE<<<<< for more info…………****DONATIONS**** can also be made toward MGO's Legal Defense Fund and/or MGO's Forums >>>>>HERE<<<<<

KROGER

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 39
  1. #21
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Rochester Hills
    Posts
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by Roundballer View Post
    We can't have an "intelligent and courteous discussion" when the premise for discussion starts with examples of what was done in another country and insisting that something can be done without violating our RIGHTS. The comparison is an apples to oranges situation and the fact that what was, or is being done in those countries didn't work for them either. It is not like France hasn't had its own mass shooting, even bigger and worse than the ones here.
    What would be violating your rights in saying an eye exam (as an example) is requested once in a while, or a supervised shooting session once a year (also as an example) showing you still know the basics of firearm safety and how to use them?

    Yes, sadly France has had mass shootings (Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan in 2015) perpetrated by the terror group ISIS.......Why do you say they were worse by the way?

  2. #22
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Rochester Hills
    Posts
    140
    The French anthem has been criticized for being too "violent" using terms such "throat slitting", "ferocious", "bloody flag", "fields filled with blood", etc....Yes, it was written during the Revolution in 1792, which was a bloodbath
    Thinking about it, yes it is............But should we keep it that way to remember what happened, or replace it and somehow forget? Big question........I would prefer to keep it for the only reason to not forget
    Last edited by french_guy_2012; 08-25-2019 at 12:43 PM.

  3. #23
    MGO Member Roundballer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    I/C "Gateway to the Thumb" Lapeer County
    Posts
    22,562
    Quote Originally Posted by french_guy_2012 View Post
    What would be violating your rights in saying an eye exam (as an example) is requested once in a while, or a supervised shooting session once a year (also as an example) showing you still know the basics of firearm safety and how to use them?
    An eye exam is even some what ignorant for the DL. They give you a reading test, I don't need to be able to read the IP to safely drive. Yet because I need glasses to read, they say I need glasses to drive, yet I can't clearly see 75' with my reading glasses on. I can read the big green expressway signs at nearly a mile away without them. For shooting, I adapt the firearm to me, you only need to see the front sight absolutely clearly. How can they "test" for that?

    Then this whole concept of "proving you can shoot" and "proving you know about safety", for what? So you can get a license? So they have a way of "taxing" your RIGHTS? So they have a list of EVERY gun owner in the country? The criminals won't comply, it IS an infringement on everyone else's rights.
    I'll spell it out for you:
    "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
    Is that very difficult to understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by french_guy_2012 View Post
    Yes, sadly France has had mass shootings (Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan in 2015) perpetrated by the terror group ISIS.......Why do you say they were worse by the way?
    Death rate per incident, frequency of incident, pick one. The USA ranks lower than France in every category I saw. And most of those were listed as some sort of population ratio, so the actual numbers like Las Vegas Deaths‎: ‎59 (including the perpetrator), Paris Deaths‎: ‎138 (including 7 perpetrators) aren't directly shown.


    Life Member, NRA, Lapeer County Sportsmen's Club Disclaimer: I Am Not A Lawyer. Opinions expressed are not representative of any organization to which I may belong, and are solely mine. Any natural person or legal entity reading this post accepts all responsibility for any actions undertaken by that person or entity, based upon what they perceived was contained in this post, and shall hold harmless this poster, his antecedents, and descendants, in perpetuity.

  4. #24
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Rochester Hills
    Posts
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by Roundballer View Post
    An eye exam is even some what ignorant for the DL. They give you a reading test, I don't need to be able to read the IP to safely drive. Yet because I need glasses to read, they say I need glasses to drive, yet I can't clearly see 75' with my reading glasses on. I can read the big green expressway signs at nearly a mile away without them. For shooting, I adapt the firearm to me, you only need to see the front sight absolutely clearly. How can they "test" for that?

    Then this whole concept of "proving you can shoot" and "proving you know about safety", for what? So you can get a license? So they have a way of "taxing" your RIGHTS? So they have a list of EVERY gun owner in the country? The criminals won't comply, it IS an infringement on everyone else's rights.
    I'll spell it out for you:
    "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
    Is that very difficult to understand?



    Death rate per incident, frequency of incident, pick one. The USA ranks lower than France in every category I saw. And most of those were listed as some sort of population ratio, so the actual numbers like Las Vegas Deaths‎: ‎59 (including the perpetrator), Paris Deaths‎: ‎138 (including 7 perpetrators) aren't directly shown.
    My purpose was not to be morbid with all those details, but.................if you want to include Charlie Hebdo and the Bataclan perpetrated by ISIS, then you need to include the tragic events such as 9/11 and the Boston marathon bombing
    My point is rather than ending up with some politics imposing new laws/rules, why not proposing something smart instead that will not violate any right but will adapt to the new society we are living in?
    I like to say that a disturbed kid in France will have hard time to find a gun, drum mag and hundreds of round to kill people, when it's so easy in the US....

  5. #25
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    West Michigan
    Posts
    1,154
    France is slightly less than twice the size of the state of Colorado. Does France protect its politicians and wealthy elites with armed security? Do the police carry guns? How many times did Germany walk into France? How many times since the revolutionary war has another army attempted to walk into the US?

    Every single one of the things you have proposed will only stop good people with guns. We are unable to control our borders. Many of the ones that want to take away our guns want to take down our border fences. We can't even keep drugs out of our country. How would we keep guns out? So then who would have guns? The bad guys would.

    To understand the reason for the 2nd amendment you need to understand how our country was founded. We revolted against a tyrannical government. The reason for the 2nd amendment was to keep the government in check so that we would never again be subjugated to a tyrannical government.

  6. #26
    MGO Member Roundballer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    I/C "Gateway to the Thumb" Lapeer County
    Posts
    22,562
    Quote Originally Posted by french_guy_2012 View Post
    My purpose was not to be morbid with all those details, but.................if you want to include Charlie Hebdo and the Bataclan perpetrated by ISIS, then you need to include the tragic events such as 9/11 and the Boston marathon bombing
    No, no, no. This is about MASS SHOOTINGS, and who the perpetrator is/was doesn't really matter. They were in the country and subject to that country's gun laws. You don't get to disclude an event/incident because a country also has poor immigration or visa policies.

    Quote Originally Posted by french_guy_2012 View Post
    My point is rather than ending up with some politics imposing new laws/rules, why not proposing something smart instead that will not violate any right but will adapt to the new society we are living in?
    That would be nice, but it is illogical. We already have laws about murder and irresponsible discharge, and tons of other laws, but none of them have worked yet. Maybe it is the way that this "new society" is headed that is the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by french_guy_2012 View Post
    I like to say that a disturbed kid in France will have hard time to find a gun, drum mag and hundreds of round to kill people, when it's so easy in the US....
    As compared to the "actors" in the prior mentioned French incidents?

    Read up on all of the US's current laws, and the actions that the .gov have taken recently. Also, please note that none of the laws/actions proposed or enacted so far would have prevented the crime that they were enacted to resolve.

    Then, don't buy into the liberal crap "I support the 2A, my family hunts" or "common sense" buzz words.


    Life Member, NRA, Lapeer County Sportsmen's Club Disclaimer: I Am Not A Lawyer. Opinions expressed are not representative of any organization to which I may belong, and are solely mine. Any natural person or legal entity reading this post accepts all responsibility for any actions undertaken by that person or entity, based upon what they perceived was contained in this post, and shall hold harmless this poster, his antecedents, and descendants, in perpetuity.

  7. #27
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Rochester Hills
    Posts
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by Roundballer View Post
    No, no, no. This is about MASS SHOOTINGS, and who the perpetrator is/was doesn't really matter. They were in the country and subject to that country's gun laws. You don't get to disclude an event/incident because a country also has poor immigration or visa policies.



    That would be nice, but it is illogical. We already have laws about murder and irresponsible discharge, and tons of other laws, but none of them have worked yet. Maybe it is the way that this "new society" is headed that is the problem.


    As compared to the "actors" in the prior mentioned French incidents?

    Read up on all of the US's current laws, and the actions that the .gov have taken recently. Also, please note that none of the laws/actions proposed or enacted so far would have prevented the crime that they were enacted to resolve.

    Then, don't buy into the liberal crap "I support the 2A, my family hunts" or "common sense" buzz words.
    As compared to the "actors" in the prior mentioned French incidents? I disagree with that......an organized terror group such as ISIS has enough money and support in the "black market" to provide any kind of weapons to their "members", anywhere in the world
    An angry or mentally ill person in the US doesn't need all of that to find guns and ammo

    I do agree that some proposals made (and I don't know them all) wouldn't have changed the latest mass shooting....This is why it would make sense to propose something smart and efficient

    1 thing I really don't understand though: You say there are already tons of law about firearms. Buying a gun at a FFL means background check to prevent for example a felon to purchase a firearm. So why the same background check is not required at gun shows or private sale? It means a felon who knows cannot "legally" buy a gun will go at a gun show and get one? Unless I'm mistaken?

    Anyway, I'm happy to see we can have such discussions on a forum without any insults or whatsoever.........

  8. #28
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Rochester Hills
    Posts
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by eightbit View Post
    France is slightly less than twice the size of the state of Colorado. Does France protect its politicians and wealthy elites with armed security? Do the police carry guns? How many times did Germany walk into France? How many times since the revolutionary war has another army attempted to walk into the US?

    Every single one of the things you have proposed will only stop good people with guns. We are unable to control our borders. Many of the ones that want to take away our guns want to take down our border fences. We can't even keep drugs out of our country. How would we keep guns out? So then who would have guns? The bad guys would.

    To understand the reason for the 2nd amendment you need to understand how our country was founded. We revolted against a tyrannical government. The reason for the 2nd amendment was to keep the government in check so that we would never again be subjugated to a tyrannical government.
    Does France protect its politicians and wealthy elites with armed security? Yes for the politicians, no for the wealthy elites
    Do the police carry guns? Yes
    How many times did Germany walk into France? 3 times.....(not including the Goths, Ostrogoths and Visigoths since I wouldn't know). However, why bringing the 1870 war, WWI and WWII in the discussion?
    How many times since the revolutionary war has another army attempted to walk into the US? How should I understand that question ? Are you saying other "armies" are scared about US citizens being armed? I would rather think it's because the US Army is one of the most powerful army in the world, if not THE most powerful
    Bad guys will always have guns.....unfortunately. And the case of the good guy with a gun stopping a mass shooting is very rare (the only one I've heard was in the case of the shooting in a church in Texas....but maybe there are others I'm not aware of)
    And don't get me wrong: I'm not one of those "Many of the ones that want to take away our guns want to take down our border fences."

    As I said, I'm not an American but I think I understand the 2nd amendment about having a well regulated militia at the time the US didn't have a regular army available....But it's not the case anymore, right?

  9. #29
    MGO Member Bikenut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Too close to Saginaw MI
    Posts
    3,563
    The first error is assuming a law, regulation, system of qualifying, or system of controlling will actually prevent criminals and nuts from shooting innocents. Especially since History has shown thousands of gun control laws here in the U.S. will not stop a determined criminal or nut.

    There is an entire system of qualifying and passing background checks in order to be given the government's permission (a permit) to carry a gun concealed yet criminals buy a gun on the street corner, or steal one, and shove it in their waistband under their shirt paying no attention to the existing permit system. So what did that system of what many people think is a "smart" way to prevent criminals from carrying a gun concealed accomplish?

    And if all guns are confiscated in the entire country the criminal won't buy one off the street nor will he steal one.... he will buy one off one of the many ships smuggling guns into port.

    Criminals do not obey laws nor will they comply with tests or proving to some official they can shoot. Any tests or systems of proof will have absolutely no effect on criminals. None. None at all. Again, History has already shown, and continues to show, all the existing laws and systems for qualifying already in place do nothing to stop criminals.

    There is one guaranteed method of stopping a criminal from shooting people. Shoot him right back..... often. And to do that ordinary law abiding people need to be carrying guns. Gun control laws and qualifying tests result in making it difficult for law abiding folks to carry guns while making it easier for criminals carrying guns illegally to shoot innocents.

  10. #30
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Livingston Co.
    Posts
    19,770
    Quote Originally Posted by french_guy_2012 View Post
    My point is rather than ending up with some politics imposing new laws/rules, why not proposing something smart instead that will not violate any right but will adapt to the new society we are living in?....
    I know English isn't your first language but maybe you can find someone to translate the phrase "shall not be infringed".

    It's what the second amendment is all about.

    Rather then compare our country to yours, pick a couple states that equal about the size & population of France & compare those.
    Or compare us to all of Europe.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
only search Michigan Gun Owners Forums
MGO's Facebook MGO's Twitter