7.62x51 NATO Ammo: WOLF vs. TULA?

[VIGILANT]

I've decided to keep my Kel-Tec RFB (Gen 2) but realize it's going to be expensive to feed it 7.62x51 NATO ammo. I've read a review where a guy is shooting thousands of rounds of WOLF ammo with great reliability in his RFB. The only time I ever shot steel cased rifle ammo it was Tula in a Norinco AK style carbine and it worked perfect. I'm aware of the really old stuff with lacquered shell casings having problems with the lacquer melting and basically gluing the case to the chamber so I won't be using any of that. What has been your experiences and is one better than the other, WOLF vs. TULA? TULA is cheaper.

Also, I know steel core ammo is banned at most if not all indoor ranges. I guess some of this ammo has a bi-metal bullet jacket with lead core. What about outdoor ranges? I know some ranges like to harvest the copper and lead out of the backstops. Do any of them ban steel core bullets? I value the expertise and feedback here on MGO.

Thanks!

[Nightshade1]

I don't think I have ever bought Tula, but only because I don't shoot enough to go through steel case, I've still at least half a case of Wolf 223 but only because the only outdoor range I go to isn't suitable for blasting. Never had an issue with Wolf. With the sticky bolt in my DMR it likely would FTE but I'm not putting bimetal through a stainless barrel.

The Sharonville DNR range in Grass Lake lets you shoot steel case ammo. It would be in the rules of your local range's website if it was banned.

[Ol` Joe]

Wolf is a marketing company not a manufacture so their ammo could be produced in different companies depending on where they are buying from at the time, often Tula. I have been told that when chronograph the “steel” brands have some pretty wide spreads in velocity which tells me pressures must also vary quite a bit. Which “steel” brand or if all I do not know.
Tula and the “Bear” brands are from two separate Russian companies from what I have been told. Tula was polymer coated not lacquered at one time but I’m am not sure of how they are protected from corrosion today. All of the Russian ammo was and, maybe is still not made to either SAAMI or CIP standards and, quality varies between lots. I have been told Wolf now is a SAAMI member so hopefully their ammo “should” be manufactured to meet that standard today where ever it comes from.
I read in some publication, I can not recall which a few years back, that the problem with steel according to a Ruger rep. was that it does not have the elastic properties of brass and does not contract to the same degree or as fast. This can cause the case to still be gripping the chamber wall a bit while the extraction cycle is starting or even during it. Russian military cartridges do not have a problem with this due to their tapered cartridge shape while NATO and most modern cartridges have very straight are walls which increase the drag during the extraction cycle. This also part of the problem behind the rumors of steel being hard on extractors.
Whether or not your gun will run with steel cased ammo I can’t say. Try it with a couple boxes of different brands and see if one or all work is The only help I can offer...

[Fuel Fire Desire]

Internally, the RFB is very FAL-like. FAL’s in general don’t like steel cased ammunition. The one and only kaboom I’ve ever had was with steel case ammo in my FAL. The case head cracked and vented gas rearward into the receiver, blowing my magazine completely apart like a bomb went off inside it. Before that catastrophic failure, I had two casings stick in the chamber to the point where I had to hammer fist the charging handle to clear the malfunction. This would really bother me in the RFB, as the extractor claws are nowhere near as robust as the one in the FAL, and they are already known to be the weak point of the RFB (they crack). The loads were noticeably hotter too, more blast, flash, and felt recoil.

I will never run steel cased 7.62x51 in my FAL or RFB again. The overwhelming consensus on the FAL files is to run as far away from the stuff as possible. Check out ammoseek.com for up to the minute online pricing of ammo across hundreds of sites. You can search by grain and case material.

Hirt surplus is about as cheap as steel case, and when you could still get it, ZQI was priced the same, though ZQI only yielded 3-4” groups at 100 yards.

This failure was with Herters branded steel case (Cabelas house brand ammo manufactured by Tula). The flash coming out of the FAL below was a screenshot of a video I took one magazine before the kaboom.

[VIGILANT]

My RFB is the updated Generation 2 design. One of the things they changed is a greatly improved bolt design and it's titanium nitride coated. I have not heard of any failures with this new design. A new gas valve design which has a greater range of adjustment has improved feeding and chambering.

The newer Poly coated steel cases are a big improvement over the old lacquer coated ones and pretty much solved the stuck cases people were experiencing with the lacquer coated ones. No more corrosion either. Even WOLF is Poly coated like Tula.

After reading your comments and the case failure and thinking how the bull pup gun places the chamber very close to your face, even though the RFB has a double layer of steel protecting the shooter, I'll stick with new quality "brass" cases. Federal's Lake City and Sellier & Bellot are reasonably priced. I've shot a lot of that over the years in 5.56mm rifles, never a problem.

[Fuel Fire Desire]

That is a poly coated case.

[VIGILANT]

That is a poly coated case.

Isn't that what I said?

[Fuel Fire Desire]

Isn't that what I said?

I miscomprehended what you said earlier. I was just saying I was getting stuck cases with new poly coated.

[Fuel Fire Desire]

What year of manufacture is your gen 2?

I have a gen 2 produced in 2017, and I was expecting the titanium nitride bolt finish. I was a bit disappointed when it was a glossy black. I was told it was an updated ‘salt bath nitride’ finish. No issues with it though, it’s still a very slick feeling finish. The bore is now lined with this finish too. Probably 1500 rounds through it so far, and the only malfunctions I’ve had were user induced from improper gas settings. Though, when the RFB goes out of production (soon, as they are talking about superseding it with a 7.62 RDB variant using AR10 mags and that’s significantly cheaper to manufacture) I’m definitely going to buy a couple pairs of extractor claws.

[VIGILANT]

I miscomprehended what you said earlier. I was just saying I was getting stuck cases with new poly coated.

That's good to know as I thought the Poly coat solved that problem.