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  1. #1
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    Question about out of state permit and no longer "registering" aka RI-060

    Hello,

    I was reading up on the sticky thread at the top about getting an out of state permit, some of which are costly, and seeing that you basically avoid having to turn in the RI-060 forms once you have one.

    My question is, what happens to the ATF form that you fill out when buying a new gun from a dealer? Aren't all new guns from the dealer in effect registered with that form to the ATF?

    Seems like a waste of time and expense just to avoid Michigan's registration.

    Please educate me on what happens when you fill out a 4473 (I think it's called) when buying a new gun from an FFL. Doesn't it still go into a database somewhere? Hopefully, someone on here who is an FFL dealer can answer.

    Thanks,
    FC

  2. #2
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    ATF is not supposed to see the 4473 unless there is a good specific reason. Many doubt that ATF is behaving in this way. The 4473 is not registration in the same way that pistol registration is registration in Michigan. Some believe it is back door registration, though. If you really want to keep your purchases private, get an out of state carry license and only buy from private sellers.
    No clause in the constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give congress a power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretence by a state legislature. But if in any blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both.
    William Rawle - offered the position of the first Attorney General of the United States, by President Washington

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc2462 View Post
    Hello,

    I was reading up on the sticky thread at the top about getting an out of state permit, some of which are costly, and seeing that you basically avoid having to turn in the RI-060 forms once you have one.

    My question is, what happens to the ATF form that you fill out when buying a new gun from a dealer? Aren't all new guns from the dealer in effect registered with that form to the ATF?

    Seems like a waste of time and expense just to avoid Michigan's registration.

    Please educate me on what happens when you fill out a 4473 (I think it's called) when buying a new gun from an FFL. Doesn't it still go into a database somewhere? Hopefully, someone on here who is an FFL dealer can answer.

    Thanks,
    FC
    The FFL keeps and maintains the record. Information is only given to the ATF when they request it usually due to an investigation, or if the FFL decides to close. Even then the ATF just stores it and isn't supposed to record the info, which I wouldn't bet on.

    The only other time information is directly sent to the ATF is when multiple purchases occur within five business days from the same buyer and in Michigan it's pistols only.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreaseMonkeySRT View Post
    The only other time information is directly sent to the ATF is when multiple purchases occur within five business days from the same buyer and in Michigan it's pistols only.
    For pistols, this is applicable in all states (ATF Form 3310.4).

    In Arizona, California, Texas and New Mexico (states that share a border with Mexico), FFLs also have to report multiple rifle sales (different form that multiple pistol sales form: ATF Form 3310.12) if the rifles have certain characteristics, which include semiautomatic, a caliber greater than .22 (including .223 or 5.56 mm), and the ability to accept detachable magazines.

    Don't ask me why I know this. I happened upon it one day.

  5. #5
    MGO Member Mkc451's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmonarch View Post
    ATF is not supposed to see the 4473 unless there is a good specific reason. Many doubt that ATF is behaving in this way. The 4473 is not registration in the same way that pistol registration is registration in Michigan. Some believe it is back door registration, though. If you really want to keep your purchases private, get an out of state carry license and only buy from private sellers.
    Interesting article about what happens to FFL records when they lose or fail to renew their license.


    https://www.businessinsider.com/here...e-a-gun-2016-8

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mkc451 View Post
    Interesting article about what happens to FFL records when they lose or fail to renew their license.


    https://www.businessinsider.com/here...e-a-gun-2016-8

    wow, that is one horribly written article.
    No man made law physically prevents one from doing anything they have a mind to.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by fc2462 View Post
    Hello,

    I was reading up on the sticky thread at the top about getting an out of state permit, some of which are costly, and seeing that you basically avoid having to turn in the RI-060 forms once you have one.

    My question is, what happens to the ATF form that you fill out when buying a new gun from a dealer? Aren't all new guns from the dealer in effect registered with that form to the ATF?

    Seems like a waste of time and expense just to avoid Michigan's registration.

    Please educate me on what happens when you fill out a 4473 (I think it's called) when buying a new gun from an FFL. Doesn't it still go into a database somewhere? Hopefully, someone on here who is an FFL dealer can answer.

    Thanks,
    FC
    Technically, the FFL can also turn around and shred the 4473 after 20 years following the sale. The 4473 is just a piece of paper that sits in the FFLs filing cabinet although the ATF does get all this if they shut down, whether that goes into a database once the ATF has it is another matter. I'm pretty sure the ATF collecting 4473s/A&D logs from an FFL that shut down is how they were able to track down everyone who owned one of those Sol Invictus AA-12 shotguns when they got reclassified as "machine guns", I'd have to see if I can find the article again....

    To me, getting an out of state permit is worth the expense whether or not you care about registration just to not have to deal with turning in RI60s within 10 days which is kind of pain to me, especially if you buy frequently.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by castrotikon View Post
    To me, getting an out of state permit is worth the expense whether or not you care about registration just to not have to deal with turning in RI60s within 10 days which is kind of pain to me, especially if you buy frequently.
    One thing, possibly the only thing, I liked about the hazel park PD is that they 100% knew what to do with RI060, and you could drop them off 24/7 to their dispatch window.
    There were times i showed up in the middle of the night dressed like a bum, shambled in, and stuffed an RI060 through the little window. Usually there was somebody right there to take it, but if not I'd just yell "dropped off an ARE-EYE-SIXTY" on my way back out and I'd hear "okay thanks" from somewhere in the back.

    But you're not wrong. registration is stupid.
    DISCLAIMER: Disclaimer. The opinions expressed in this post are those of the author, DrScaryGuy. They do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of MGO, its board of directors, or its members.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrScaryGuy View Post
    One thing, possibly the only thing, I liked about the hazel park PD is that they 100% knew what to do with RI060, and you could drop them off 24/7 to their dispatch window.
    There were times i showed up in the middle of the night dressed like a bum, shambled in, and stuffed an RI060 through the little window. Usually there was somebody right there to take it, but if not I'd just yell "dropped off an ARE-EYE-SIXTY" on my way back out and I'd hear "okay thanks" from somewhere in the back.

    But you're not wrong. registration is stupid.
    The article also continued the lie that registration doesn't lead to confiscation, and the NRA are peddling falsehoods.
    The truth lies in a minimum of six words i.e. hurricane Katrina, new zealand, red flags. All verified instances where registration is/was directly used for confiscation.
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  10. #10
    MGO Member Roundballer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendo View Post
    The article also continued the lie that registration doesn't lead to confiscation, and the NRA are peddling falsehoods.
    The truth lies in a minimum of six words i.e. hurricane Katrina, new zealand, red flags. All verified instances where registration is/was directly used for confiscation.
    Louisiana does not have any form of gun registration or any "BG" checks that are not Federal law.
    New Zealand does not have any form of gun registration. After the big shake up, they are licensing owners, but there is now a law to "turn them in", but they don't know who have them.
    Red Flag protection orders also happen in places without registration in place. They just include in the order to confiscate all firearms in the persons' possession.

    There are only about 5 States that have any form of gun registration at all.


    Life Member, NRA, Lapeer County Sportsmen's Club Disclaimer: I Am Not A Lawyer. Opinions expressed are not representative of any organization to which I may belong, and are solely mine. Any natural person or legal entity reading this post accepts all responsibility for any actions undertaken by that person or entity, based upon what they perceived was contained in this post, and shall hold harmless this poster, his antecedents, and descendants, in perpetuity.

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