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Firearms Legal Protection

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  1. #11
    MGO Member Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erict View Post
    All good advise. Also try to put the safe in a corner with the side of the safe door that opens facing the wall. That way they will have a tougher time using something to pry the door open.
    Not many safes have this feature, but I have one with a recessed solid (not composite) hardened steel door. With it being recessed, it’s very difficult, if not impossible, to get any leverage on the door with a pry tool.

    Fort Knox offers corner bolts to prevent a pry attack from the corners too. I’m not sure if liberty has that option too or not. It wasn’t an overly expensive option ($250 maybe?), but adds to piece of mind.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuel Fire Desire View Post
    I use Able Safe in Pinconning for all of my safes. I prefer Fort Knox, of which he is a dealer. He is also one of the only Dakota dealers in mi, of which I have one. Great guy, great service, and has always given me a discount being I’m from down state and continue to buy from him. I believe he has Libertys in stock as well.

    While it takes more time to access, I prefer a dial lock. Mainly for the tactile “solid” feel of them over the cheaper feeling plastic electronic interface. No batteries to worry about either. I’m not one to worry about EMP’s, but that’s also a positive for mechanical. The mechanical locks I have (S&G’s I believe they are) aren’t like a pad lock or gym locker, there’s a few more steps involved. My wife still can’t figure them out even with knowing the digits, lol. That might be a negative.

    I prefer wider safes. I don’t have to unload a stack of 12 guns to get to the one I want way in the back if they’re more spread out.

    —-get the door organizer—

    —-get a lighting package—- I didn’t get the expensive factory option, but rather a 12’ strip of LED’s with a motion sensor from amazon for $20. Works great.

    Get a dry rod. I don’t have to worry about baking/ buying new desiccant packs, my dry rod keeps everything circulating.

    Make sure your safe has a clutch on the handle. Some do, some don’t. Without a clutch someone can put a cheater bar on your handle and pull right through the lock. A clutch will slip to prevent over torquing of the locking pawl.


    Bolt the safe down, but not to your basement floor. I was warned of this by three different dealers. If you go all the way through your pad (some are cheaply poured to just a couple inches) you’ll pop into the water table, and you’ll get water in your basement.

    Having a pedestal makes getting into the safe easier, and keeps it off the floor in case of minor flooding, but completely defeats the purpose of bolting down. I made my own pedestals using multiple layers of 6x6’s. The 6x6’s are liquid nailed to the floor, to each other, lag bolted together, and the safe has 4 10” lag bolts running into them. Even if someone were to pop the base off the floor, the extra 400lbs and bulk of the wood makes it impossible to fit through any door or up any stairs.

    If you don’t bolt down, bolt it to the wall. Safe doors are heavy, and heavier when loaded with a heavy organizer. Having a 1200lb steel box tip over on you would ruin your day.


    Don’t worry too much about fire ratings, unless you plan on having it at a property with little chance of having a timely fire response (up north cabin). Many fire ratings are deceptive. Even if the heat doesn’t kill the contents of your safe, the 2 feet of water the fire department will put in your basement will.

    No matter the safe, most under the 5 figure price tags are just fancier sheet metal lockers. A determined thief will still be able to cut into the sides where the safes are weakest. Stainless wall liners and hardened steel exterior panels help, but aren’t completely cut-proof.

    Above all else.....find the size of safe you think you could never fill...and get the next size larger. The guy at Able Safe said that the vast majority of first time buyers are back within a year to buy another one because they stuffed their first one full. Me included.
    Thank you so much for the detailed information - I really appreciate it. I was aware of buying bigger, but I did intentionally buy on the smaller side knowing I would have it move a couple of times at that point (wound up being four moves, two of which went to the two floor).

    - The door organizer was the second thing I bought absolutely love it.
    - I have run a couple different light options. The first was from Tractor Supply it was SnapSafe I believe and came on quickly with adjustable bulbs and could be easily detached to be used as a flashlight if needed. However it broke or burned out, and I replaced it with some Liberty Lights (made in the USA I believe). However, they do not come on as well from a light sensitivity stand point.
    - I have a dryer in there now that plugs into the wall to reset itself. I did have a electronic rod at first, but the last couple places I have lived there were no outlets near where I needed the safe to be.

    The advantages of wider vs deeper make a lot of sense. The basement piece is something I was completely unaware of related to the issues with drilling into the floor. Yes, fire rating is something to help you put your mind at ease, but I know more basement flooding stories than I do house fires stories.

    Thanks again for the information.

  3. #13
    MGO Member Pond Scum's Avatar
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    I love my Liberty FatBoy. Bought it on sale when Gander Mountain was unloading all of there "Gander Branded" safes. The low height was perfect for getting it into the basement of our 1880's house.

    https://www.ganderoutdoors.com/liber...me-221143.html

    And I really like the pistol pockets in the door.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pond Scum View Post
    I love my Liberty FatBoy. Bought it on sale when Gander Mountain was unloading all of there "Gander Branded" safes. The low height was perfect for getting it into the basement of our 1880's house.

    https://www.ganderoutdoors.com/liber...me-221143.html

    And I really like the pistol pockets in the door.
    Good to know that you for the information.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuel Fire Desire View Post
    I use Able Safe in Pinconning for all of my safes. I prefer Fort Knox, of which he is a dealer. He is also one of the only Dakota dealers in mi, of which I have one. Great guy, great service, and has always given me a discount being I’m from down state and continue to buy from him. I believe he has Libertys in stock as well.

    While it takes more time to access, I prefer a dial lock. Mainly for the tactile “solid” feel of them over the cheaper feeling plastic electronic interface. No batteries to worry about either. I’m not one to worry about EMP’s, but that’s also a positive for mechanical. The mechanical locks I have (S&G’s I believe they are) aren’t like a pad lock or gym locker, there’s a few more steps involved. My wife still can’t figure them out even with knowing the digits, lol. That might be a negative.

    I prefer wider safes. I don’t have to unload a stack of 12 guns to get to the one I want way in the back if they’re more spread out.

    —-get the door organizer—

    —-get a lighting package—- I didn’t get the expensive factory option, but rather a 12’ strip of LED’s with a motion sensor from amazon for $20. Works great.

    Get a dry rod. I don’t have to worry about baking/ buying new desiccant packs, my dry rod keeps everything circulating.

    Make sure your safe has a clutch on the handle. Some do, some don’t. Without a clutch someone can put a cheater bar on your handle and pull right through the lock. A clutch will slip to prevent over torquing of the locking pawl.


    Bolt the safe down, but not to your basement floor. I was warned of this by three different dealers. If you go all the way through your pad (some are cheaply poured to just a couple inches) you’ll pop into the water table, and you’ll get water in your basement.

    Having a pedestal makes getting into the safe easier, and keeps it off the floor in case of minor flooding, but completely defeats the purpose of bolting down. I made my own pedestals using multiple layers of 6x6’s. The 6x6’s are liquid nailed to the floor, to each other, lag bolted together, and the safe has 4 10” lag bolts running into them. Even if someone were to pop the base off the floor, the extra 400lbs and bulk of the wood makes it impossible to fit through any door or up any stairs.

    If you don’t bolt down, bolt it to the wall. Safe doors are heavy, and heavier when loaded with a heavy organizer. Having a 1200lb steel box tip over on you would ruin your day.


    Don’t worry too much about fire ratings, unless you plan on having it at a property with little chance of having a timely fire response (up north cabin). Many fire ratings are deceptive. Even if the heat doesn’t kill the contents of your safe, the 2 feet of water the fire department will put in your basement will.

    No matter the safe, most under the 5 figure price tags are just fancier sheet metal lockers. A determined thief will still be able to cut into the sides where the safes are weakest. Stainless wall liners and hardened steel exterior panels help, but aren’t completely cut-proof.

    Above all else.....find the size of safe you think you could never fill...and get the next size larger. The guy at Able Safe said that the vast majority of first time buyers are back within a year to buy another one because they stuffed their first one full. Me included.
    I’ve thought about pouring a 6” thick slab on top of my basement floor big enough to put the safe on. This way it gets it off the floor And I can bolt it down without fear of going through floor. It will be in a corner with block walls on two sides, but I am also thinking of putting a block wall on the other side as well as high as the safe. I was thinking the extra wall would do a few things, 1. Keep someone from cutting into the side. 2. If I built it just deeper than the safe, it would help against prying. 3. In the event of fire in that corner, it may help keep safe cooler?

    Any thoughts on that plan?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyharry View Post
    I’ve thought about pouring a 6” thick slab on top of my basement floor big enough to put the safe on. This way it gets it off the floor And I can bolt it down without fear of going through floor. It will be in a corner with block walls on two sides, but I am also thinking of putting a block wall on the other side as well as high as the safe. I was thinking the extra wall would do a few things, 1. Keep someone from cutting into the side. 2. If I built it just deeper than the safe, it would help against prying. 3. In the event of fire in that corner, it may help keep safe cooler?

    Any thoughts on that plan?
    I like the idea from a 'that would be cool' perspective, but I think it's unnecessary.

    A lot of work considering I haven't heard of anyone successfully getting into a good gun safe during a break in. If it is happening and I just haven't heard about it, then I think what you're planning sounds like a good approach.

    Dont get me wrong, if someone wants into the safe, they're going to. I just haven't heard of it happening that would cause me to go through the extra precautions you are thinking of.

  7. #17
    MGO Member Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
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    Having block walls on the sides of the safe probably wouldn’t do much to stop a determined attack. A few minutes with a 5lb sledge would bring it apart.


    Pouring an entire base might be overkill. You could simply lay down a couple layers of cinder block, and fill the voids with quick-Crete. That was one option explained to me, but the 6x6 idea idea was easier for me. It’s also removable, since I’m in a house I don’t expect to be in through the end of the decade. I’m just curious how strong the liquid nail adhesive is going to be when it comes time to sledge the wood off the floor and apart from one another.


    But...keep in mind.... unless the bad guys in your home know you have a safe, know it’s worth trying to get into, and know they are going to have the time to try and attack it without being interrupted, most burglars will try the door, then try to move it, and give up. The average burglary lasts about 10 minutes, and they typically just grab what’s easy and bail.

    There was a show on the discovery channel years ago (to catch a thief maybe), where the host would talk the owner into letting him break in and actually rob the place. Even when he had help, I don’t remember him ever even attempting to access or remove a gun safe. He was in and out within 10 minutes with as much jewelry, cash, and valuables the suitcases in your closet could hold (along with your car if he found your spare set of keys). He was a career burglar that had been caught. It was always shocking as to how fast and savagely he could rip apart a home and be gone before the cops would show up.....and he did get arrested a few times on the show. Mostly from homes with a good operational security system.

    Have a good security system, keep the safe hidden, dont talk about your safe or gun collection on social media or to people you don’t fully trust, and 90% of the risk is already mitigated. A safe is primarily to deny unauthorized access, and to slow slightly more determined thieves. No safe will fully halt a determined attack. Especially if you have a composite safe. The vast majority of us gun owners aren’t going to be investing in a 5000lb solid steel Graffunder.
    Last edited by Fuel Fire Desire; 04-19-2020 at 11:14 AM.

  8. #18
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    “Pouring an entire base might be overkill. You could simply lay down a couple layers of cinder block, and fill the voids with quick-Crete. That was one option explained to me, but the 6x6 idea idea was easier for me. It’s also removable, since I’m in a house I don’t expect to be in through the end of the decade. I’m just curious how strong the liquid nail adhesive is going to be when it comes time to sledge the wood off the floor and apart from one another..”

    Laying cinder blocks on their side and filling the voids is an interesting (and easier) approach. I wonder how it would hold up when you go to bolt the safe down if you happen to drill right on the seam between the filled void and the block itself?
    Last edited by dirtyharry; 04-19-2020 at 02:19 PM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyharry View Post
    “Pouring an entire base might be overkill. You could simply lay down a couple layers of cinder block, and fill the voids with quick-Crete. That was one option explained to me, but the 6x6 idea idea was easier for me. It’s also removable, since I’m in a house I don’t expect to be in through the end of the decade. I’m just curious how strong the liquid nail adhesive is going to be when it comes time to sledge the wood off the floor and apart from one another..”

    Laying cinder blocks on their side and filling the voids is an interesting (and easier) approach. I wonder how it would hold up when you go to bolt the safe down if you happen to drill right on the seam between the filled void and the block itself?
    Good point, thanks for the input.

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