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  1. #21
    MGO Board of Directors

    Trustee Jackam's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by luckless View Post
    What is our goal, here? I'm not opposed to helping instruct but, what are we doing?
    This is a good question.

    As I see it, MGO should cover the costs of the class for members wishing to attend. Non-members would pay a fee and immediately become MGO members after the course. This would be a benefit for being an MGO member, potentially increase the MGO member numbers, give the BOD something to brag about when speaking about MGO's mission statement, and lastly, give MGO some GREAT publicity.

    • A date must be decided upon.
    • An area of the state must be decided on.
    • A venue must be decided upon and reserved.
    • A budget must be submitted for approval.
    • Instructors need to be acquired.
    • RSOs need to be acquired.
    • Other needed volunteers need to be acquired.
    • Class materials must be acquired.




    What am I missing?
    "But then there are plenty of gun folks who think no one should rock the boat because it might piss off the anti gun crowd/politicians and cause even more gun control." - Bikenut
    Submissive gun rights advocates need to lose their submissiveness before we lose our 2A rights.

  2. #22
    MGO Member luckless's Avatar
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    I think the students should be willing to cover the cost of the books and other materials. If you don't pay anything for something it has a tendency to have less value. Unless we have our own course we will be buying the NRA's and the whole thing will just be a transfer of funds from MGO to NRA with a bunch of work for the volunteers thrown in. I guess we could ask the NRA to donate materials for the donated classes.

    Maybe offer free classes for those who are 16 and under since the certificate will be useless to them when they are old enough to use it. (And a big "THANKS" to Snyder and his swamp creature cronies for that!)
    Last edited by luckless; 08-29-2020 at 08:26 AM.
    Just me

    Instructor: Basic Pistol, PPIH, PPOH, Hunter Safety
    NRA Life Member
    President of the Chippewa County Shooting Association

  3. #23
    MGO Board of Directors

    Trustee Jackam's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by luckless View Post
    I think the students should be willing to cover the cost of the books and other materials. If you don't pay anything for something it has a tendency to have less value.
    Hundred dollar check to MGO, returned at time of class. Any no-shows just donated to the legal fund.

    This org NEEDS a reason for people to join.

    I challenged another member to hypothetically convince my neighbor to join MGO. My neighbor doesn't care about a forum. Doesn't care about meeting other members two or three times per year. Ah! But we support firearm education and pro 2A issues!!!
    Now you have his attention.
    "What has MGO done on the education front?"
    "Well, we have this online forum where you can get a billion different firearm ideas and opinions from strangers."
    "Pass. What about the Pro 2A stuff?"
    "We give lots of money to other firearm groups so that they can expose new shooters, sue the State, and one group even puts on a huge 2nd Amendment march in Lansing that we fund."

    Not too convincing.

    On the other hand, "Joining MGO allows you to take our CPL class for free, a legal update class for free, and even some webinars on the proper handling and cleaning of individual firearms."

    Now to me, that's convincing!

    MGO has the money. I would lobby to make this class a member benefit. Education is right in our mission statement wheelhouse. If we charged for books and materials, we don't need to nickel and diming our members. We just gave nearly 10,000 rounds of ammo to another business and the BOD is debating whether to fund an already funded 2A march this year. No need to spend foolishly, but in my family, if I have a spare five bucks, my son or daughter gets it before I give it to someone else. MGO has the money. The fees can always be changed for future classes.
    "But then there are plenty of gun folks who think no one should rock the boat because it might piss off the anti gun crowd/politicians and cause even more gun control." - Bikenut
    Submissive gun rights advocates need to lose their submissiveness before we lose our 2A rights.

  4. #24
    MGO Board of Directors

    Trustee Jackam's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by luckless View Post
    Maybe offer free classes for those who are 16 and under since the certificate will be useless to them when they are old enough to use it. (And a big "THANKS" to Snyder and his swamp creature cronies for that!)
    Don't bring me down
    "But then there are plenty of gun folks who think no one should rock the boat because it might piss off the anti gun crowd/politicians and cause even more gun control." - Bikenut
    Submissive gun rights advocates need to lose their submissiveness before we lose our 2A rights.

  5. #25
    I am a Forum User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackam View Post
    Hundred dollar check to MGO, returned at time of class. Any no-shows just donated to the legal fund.

    This org NEEDS a reason for people to join.

    I challenged another member to hypothetically convince my neighbor to join MGO. My neighbor doesn't care about a forum. Doesn't care about meeting other members two or three times per year. Ah! But we support firearm education and pro 2A issues!!!
    Now you have his attention.
    "What has MGO done on the education front?"
    "Well, we have this online forum where you can get a billion different firearm ideas and opinions from strangers."
    "Pass. What about the Pro 2A stuff?"
    "We give lots of money to other firearm groups so that they can expose new shooters, sue the State, and one group even puts on a huge 2nd Amendment march in Lansing that we fund."

    Not too convincing.

    On the other hand, "Joining MGO allows you to take our CPL class for free, a legal update class for free, and even some webinars on the proper handling and cleaning of individual firearms."

    Now to me, that's convincing!

    MGO has the money. I would lobby to make this class a member benefit. Education is right in our mission statement wheelhouse. If we charged for books and materials, we don't need to nickel and diming our members. We just gave nearly 10,000 rounds of ammo to another business and the BOD is debating whether to fund an already funded 2A march this year. No need to spend foolishly, but in my family, if I have a spare five bucks, my son or daughter gets it before I give it to someone else. MGO has the money. The fees can always be changed for future classes.
    To say educating nearly 2000 women in a firearm safety program as "foolish " for MGO to be a part of just shows how wrong you are to be Involved in any education program MGO puts on.
    Last edited by Tallbear; 09-01-2020 at 11:46 AM.

  6. #26
    Super Moderator Mr. Waverly's Avatar
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    When I proposed coordinating this as a possible MGO-sponsored event, my primary vision was to provide a service to the MGO community, to help promote MGO, and to help support one of MGO's missions of education. This is also an opportunity for the MGO community to step up and participate - something that several of you have offered to do. I personally believe MGO is doing a pretty good job of public outreach, but can we (or should we) be doing more? I think Jackam and Tallbear are telling us "Yes, we can and yes, we will." From what I've read, there are many, many people who have just purchased their first firearm, and they are probably asking themselves."OK, what do I do next?" MGO can help them answer that question, if we, as a community, would just try. A CPL class is just a first step.

  7. #27
    MGO Board of Directors

    Trustee Jackam's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallbear View Post
    To say educating nearly 2000 women in a firearm safety program as "foolish "
    Who said that?
    "Foolishly" was in reference to spending a relatively minuscule amount of MGO money (compared to the 4 digit dollar amount giveaway to a private business)
    Meaning, I may not be as willing to make this for CPL free if it ran into the thousands of dollars.

    By the way Mike, what did almost 10,000 rounds of ammo cost that we gave to the Detroit Firearm Academy (or whatever it's called?)

    Please stop derailing this thread. We are trying to get something done for MGO members.
    "But then there are plenty of gun folks who think no one should rock the boat because it might piss off the anti gun crowd/politicians and cause even more gun control." - Bikenut
    Submissive gun rights advocates need to lose their submissiveness before we lose our 2A rights.

  8. #28
    MGO Board of Directors

    Trustee Jackam's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Waverly View Post
    When I proposed coordinating this
    What are your thoughts on a city?
    "But then there are plenty of gun folks who think no one should rock the boat because it might piss off the anti gun crowd/politicians and cause even more gun control." - Bikenut
    Submissive gun rights advocates need to lose their submissiveness before we lose our 2A rights.

  9. #29
    I am a Forum User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackam View Post
    Who said that?
    "Foolishly" was in reference to spending a relatively minuscule amount of MGO money (compared to the 4 digit dollar amount giveaway to a private business)
    Meaning, I may not be as willing to make this for CPL free if it ran into the thousands of dollars.

    By the way Mike, what did almost 10,000 rounds of ammo cost that we gave to the Detroit Firearm Academy (or whatever it's called?)

    Please stop derailing this thread. We are trying to get something done for MGO members.
    Not a "derailment". Just for clarification .
    Last edited by Tallbear; 09-01-2020 at 11:47 AM.

  10. #30
    Super Moderator Mr. Waverly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackam View Post
    What are your thoughts on a city?
    Excellent question. Thinking about locations for board meetings as an example, no matter what city was selected, members complained about traveling that long distance. Since the majority of our members seem to be in southeast MI, perhaps something in that area. That said, perhaps something centrally located (Lansing comes to mind, or perhaps Mt. Pleasant or Clare) to accommodate members on the west and north sides of the state. So, at this point, I don't have a specific city in mind.

    Ultimately, I would like to see MGO be able to provide training in different areas of the state; e.g., if you can't attend the spring training held in Brighton because of distance, you can attend the fall training in Grand Rapids.

    As I typed this response, I started thinking - what area of the state had the largest number of first-time gun owners? Perhaps that might be an area to target for our first class. Thoughts?

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