Welcome to MGO's Internet Discussion Forums…Please Consider Becoming a Dues-Paying Member of the ORG…Click >>>>>HERE<<<<< for more info…………****DONATIONS**** can also be made toward MGO's Legal Defense Fund and/or MGO's Forums >>>>>HERE<<<<<

KROGER

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 16 of 16
  1. #11
    MGO Board of Directors

    President PhotoTom's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wayne Co. MI
    Posts
    33,706
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikinbryno View Post
    Hmmm, interesting point.

    BTW, if anyone reading this thread wants to sell, I'm looking for an AR-10, along the lines of the Springfield Saint Victor. Haven't gotten to the point of a WTB ad yet.
    A little birdie told me that MGO plans to raffle a nice AR-10 build in February 2021…
    Don't let yesterday use up too much of today - Will Rogers
    DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, or official policies of Michigan Gun Owners.

  2. #12
    MGO Member balrog006's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SW of Grand Rapids, surrounded by chickens, Detroit some weekends.
    Posts
    3,787
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymac View Post
    Many dealers today use online/computer 4473s which means there is a permanent record of all transactions.
    Depending on the system used to store those computer forms (most not being cloud based) they may actually be more fragile and less likely to survive damage and time than the old paper copies. For example, a decent safe will protect paper, but the heat and moisture would kill a computer, HDD, and most other digital storage media. The same goes for time-how old is your oldest saved computer data? Compare that to the oldest written document you have?
    “Cui prodest?” Lucius Annaeus Seneca

  3. #13
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Brighton
    Posts
    7,264
    Even if I scale back my FFL business I'll continually renew my license just to keep 4473s out of the hands of the ATF. After 20 years I believe I can shred the 4473s, which I'll gladly do.

  4. #14
    MGO Member Roundballer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    I/C "Gateway to the Thumb" Lapeer County
    Posts
    22,562
    Quote Originally Posted by GreaseMonkeySRT View Post
    Even if I scale back my FFL business I'll continually renew my license just to keep 4473s out of the hands of the ATF. After 20 years I believe I can shred the 4473s, which I'll gladly do.
    Out of curiosity I had to go search that one:

    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/how-...atf-forms-4473

    It looks like those that end in a transfer are to be kept for 20 years. Those that didn't complete for what ever reason, are to be kept for 5 years.

    It looks like the "e" system may actually be open to the ATF to peek at when ever they want, without even going to the FFL. (system dependent)


    Life Member, NRA, Lapeer County Sportsmen's Club Disclaimer: I Am Not A Lawyer. Opinions expressed are not representative of any organization to which I may belong, and are solely mine. Any natural person or legal entity reading this post accepts all responsibility for any actions undertaken by that person or entity, based upon what they perceived was contained in this post, and shall hold harmless this poster, his antecedents, and descendants, in perpetuity.

  5. #15
    MGO Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Lake Orion
    Posts
    563
    Most of this is among fears of the us gun dealers.

    The good news is just because it's in the log book doesn't mean you still have it. So I doubt unless they classified a small group of guns they wouldn't go to far for a witch hunt as they'd quickly find out a lot have been sold. Also, I would think the NRA and other gun groups would file lawsuits and keeping injunctions in place for quite a few years.

    Not saying gun laws would change however, I just don't see them digging through past and tracking those people down who may not even own it.
    Patriot Wholesale Direct LLC - FFL Dealer
    40 Engelwood Dr Ste A Lake Orion, MI (M-F 10am-5pm) - PWDGuns.com - ( 248 ) 481-7083
    $20 FFL Transfer - Guns@PatriotWholesaleDirect.com - Contact us for a quote on a new gun!
    Glock Stocking Dealer & Glock Blue Label Dealer • $20 Transfer Fee

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Roundballer View Post
    ...It looks like the "e" system may actually be open to the ATF to peek at when ever they want, without even going to the FFL. (system dependent)
    There has been some use of a remote auditing capability, as you said, system dependent. I don't mind the idea. It's just to go through all the same things they would go through if they came in person, and the audit can't be done without setting it up, so it isn't open all the time.

    I know there are a number of us that use electronic systems, including me even as a smaller dealer. They make everything much, much, easier including ATF inquiries and visits. Mostly, they keep both the customer and the dealer from missing anything required in the paperwork.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
only search Michigan Gun Owners Forums
MGO's Facebook MGO's Twitter