Welcome to MGO's Internet Discussion Forums…Please Consider Becoming a Dues-Paying Member of the ORG…Click >>>>>HERE<<<<< for more info…………****DONATIONS**** can also be made toward MGO's Legal Defense Fund and/or MGO's Forums >>>>>HERE<<<<<

KROGER

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 32
  1. #21
    MGO Board of Directors

    President PhotoTom's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wayne Co. MI
    Posts
    33,707
    HB 4498 of 2021
    Weapons: licensing; fee for renewal of concealed pistol license; modify. Amends sec. 5l of 1927 PA 372 (MCL 28.425l).
    Last Action: 4/27/2021 Analysis File Added

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...8-E8D7E10A.pdf
    Don't let yesterday use up too much of today - Will Rogers
    DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, or official policies of Michigan Gun Owners.

  2. #22
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Howell
    Posts
    11,687
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymac View Post
    CPLs should and could be done by the SOS. It could be a $5 endorsement on your DL. And yes I know some people are against it being on your DL but it would be nice to have that option.
    Since when does the government give options? ROTF! Camel's nose in the tent, my friend.

    No way in hell would I ever support this in any way, shape or form. Neither the clerk the liquor store, the teller at the bank NOR a potential employer needs to know if I have my CPL.

  3. #23
    MGO Board of Directors

    President PhotoTom's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wayne Co. MI
    Posts
    33,707
    HB 4498 of 2021
    Weapons: licensing; fee for renewal of concealed pistol license; modify. Amends sec. 5l of 1927 PA 372 (MCL 28.425l).
    Last Action: 5/11/2021 motion to discharge committee withdrawn

    Bill came out of committee, reported with recommendation with substitute (H-2)

    Noted with: Expected Soon motion to discharge committee withdrawn
    Don't let yesterday use up too much of today - Will Rogers
    DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, or official policies of Michigan Gun Owners.

  4. #24
    MGO Board of Directors

    President PhotoTom's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wayne Co. MI
    Posts
    33,707
    HB 4498 of 2021
    Weapons: licensing; fee for renewal of concealed pistol license; modify. Amends sec. 5l of 1927 PA 372 (MCL 28.425l). TIE BAR WITH: HB 4030'21
    Last Action: 5/25/2021 Analysis File Added

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...0-61601F3D.pdf
    Don't let yesterday use up too much of today - Will Rogers
    DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, or official policies of Michigan Gun Owners.

  5. #25
    MGO Member Roundballer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    I/C "Gateway to the Thumb" Lapeer County
    Posts
    22,562
    2021-HB-4498

    05/25/21 HJ 47 Pg. 904 read a second time
    05/25/21 HJ 47 Pg. 904 substitute (H-2) adopted
    05/25/21 HJ 47 Pg. 904 placed on third reading
    Change the price, and call for a vote


    Life Member, NRA, Lapeer County Sportsmen's Club Disclaimer: I Am Not A Lawyer. Opinions expressed are not representative of any organization to which I may belong, and are solely mine. Any natural person or legal entity reading this post accepts all responsibility for any actions undertaken by that person or entity, based upon what they perceived was contained in this post, and shall hold harmless this poster, his antecedents, and descendants, in perpetuity.

  6. #26
    MGO Member Tom S.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northwest of Detroit
    Posts
    6,775
    Quote Originally Posted by Roundballer View Post
    2021-HB-4498



    Change the price, and call for a vote
    Since the state nor local police can protect us all the time, they should pay US to have a CPL instead of the other way around. Yeah, I know, wish in one hand and crap in the other....
    Lighten up Francis.

  7. #27
    MGO Board of Directors

    President PhotoTom's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wayne Co. MI
    Posts
    33,707
    Per the analysis file linked in post #24, MSP is already promising a huge slowdown of processing should this bill be passed.

    Fortunately, the 45 day provision still allows new applicants to begin CC with their application receipt from the Clerk's Office. What the analysis file doesn't say is how much the FBI charges for fingerprint processing. MSP is only getting $15 per application under this bill, and the FBI's portion comes out that amount.

    As far as their claim that the processing would slow down from the current 7.7 day average to "closer to 45 days"…that's BS. You either have enough manpower to keep up with the daily flow of applications, or you don't. If you don't, it doesn't just shift from 7.7 days average to "closer to 45 days", rather, it continues to backlog on a daily basis and 7.7 days average slips to 14 days, and slips to 21 days, and slips to 28 days…and slips to 45 days…and slips to 100 days, etc, etc. Again, you either have enough manpower to keep up with the daily flow…or you don't. If you do, there's no reason that the 7.7 day average would slip to "closer to 45 days" and stay there consistently thereafter. That's just a "punishment" threat on the part of the MSP.

    The question is…is $15 (minus the FBI cost) enough to staff the CPL division with enough manpower to keep up with the daily flow of applications?

    Per the tables associated with these bills (in the analysis file), under this new bill, the MSP revenue would go from $9,194,889 to $1,745,865 based on projected renewals of 116,391. Add to that $994,035 for new applications (per the table) and you have $2,739,900 annual revenue for the MSP under these bills. Let's say the cost to employ a dedicated employee (doesn't have to be MCOLES officers) is $100,000 (including benefits). Let's guess that the FBI charges $5 per application, so take $581,955 out of the MSP's $2,739,900 leaving $2,157,945. At face value, you could employ nearly 22 dedicated employees. However, there are other expenses involved with processing CPLs such as software development/maintenance, hardware costs, real estate, etc. Let's take 1/2 of the MSP revenue, thus leaving $1,078,973 for employment costs. Round that up and call it 11 employees dedicated for processing 116,391 renewal + 66,269 new applications per year (182,660 total applications per year).

    So, we have 11 employees working 40 hours per week, 50 weeks per year. That's 2,000 hours x 11 employees = 22,000 hours per year. 22,000 ÷ 182,660 = 0.12 hours (7.2 minutes) per application.

    Knowing that the information comes in electronically now (no manual input on the MSP's part), running a LEIN check takes seconds (if not fully automated now). From there, the MSP employee must review the return to determine if there are any DQ factors exposed. If so, the response to the County Clerk's Office is immediate, "Does not qualify". If not, once the FBI response comes back (assuming no findings), the MSP employee responds to the County Clerk that the applicant is eligible for a CPL.

    Is 7 minutes per application enough? Personally, I would say yes, it is (comfortably). Most of the LEIN/FBI responses are clean as a whistle and take seconds to review. Every once in awhile, you get a complicated one that takes a bit longer to carefully review, but those are few in number. I am not guessing about any of this, rather, I have first-hand experience in this process.

    So, once again…you either have enough manpower to keep up with the daily pace, or you don't. I think $15 per application is enough to keep up based on my guesstimates and calculations, so there should be no change in turnaround time should this bill pass. The MSP is just fussing about losing $11.4 million annual surplus funding, should these bills pass. Oh, and the County Clerks are getting too much, even with these bills. Just my opinion.
    Don't let yesterday use up too much of today - Will Rogers
    DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, or official policies of Michigan Gun Owners.

  8. #28
    MGO Board of Directors

    President PhotoTom's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wayne Co. MI
    Posts
    33,707
    HB 4498 of 2021
    Weapons: licensing; fee for renewal of concealed pistol license; modify. Amends sec. 5l of 1927 PA 372 (MCL 28.425l). TIE BAR WITH: HB 4030'21
    Last Action: 5/27/2021 REFERRED TO COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS
    Don't let yesterday use up too much of today - Will Rogers
    DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, or official policies of Michigan Gun Owners.

  9. #29
    MGO Board of Directors

    President PhotoTom's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wayne Co. MI
    Posts
    33,707
    HB 4498 of 2021
    Weapons: licensing; fee for renewal of concealed pistol license; modify. Amends sec. 5l of 1927 PA 372 (MCL 28.425l).
    Last Action: 5/3/2022 REASSIGNED TO COMMITTEE ON REGULATORY REFORM
    Don't let yesterday use up too much of today - Will Rogers
    DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, or official policies of Michigan Gun Owners.

  10. #30
    MGO Board of Directors

    President PhotoTom's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wayne Co. MI
    Posts
    33,707
    This bill is scheduled for a hearing this Tuesday, May 17th at 3:00pm.
    Don't let yesterday use up too much of today - Will Rogers
    DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, or official policies of Michigan Gun Owners.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
only search Michigan Gun Owners Forums
MGO's Facebook MGO's Twitter