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  1. #1
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    Discussion Regarding Possible Straw Purchase

    Reference:
    Hypothetical - Avoiding A Straw Purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Waverly
    Really, a semi-hypothetical. Let's say that a MI resident (with a CPL, if that matters here) is injured and cannot drive or travel. S/he finds a handgun in the MGO Classifieds that s/he just has to have. Obviously, this purchaser cannot travel to make the deal in person, and the seller cannot (for whatever reason) travel to the purchaser.

    Is there any way to make this a legal transfer? Based on what I understand of Michigan law, I don't think it would be possible. Maybe a long gun, but not a handgun.
    Reference Post #11
    Like mentioned, get a buddy with a CPL to buy it, then buy it off of him. No paperwork left out, no FFL fees.
    Scenario 1:
    A non-qualified individual asks a CPL holder to make a purchase on his behalf. CPL holder purchases a specific handgun. CPL holder then transports that handgun to the non-qualified individual and "sells" it to them with no paperwork and, obviously, no background checks involved since they both know the actual buyer is not qualified to purchase any firearms.

    Scenario 2:
    A CPL holder asked another CPL holder to make the purchase on his behalf since he is unable to travel to make the purchase himself. The other CPL holder purchases a specific handgun. The middleman CPL holder transports that handgun to the CPL holder that wants to purchase it and is obviously qualified to do so, but is simply unable to travel to purchase it from the previous owner. That CPL holder then sells the handgun to the laid-up CPL holder. Each of them turn in the MSP copy of the RI-060's. Since no FFLs are involved, there is no 4473 with the question of:


    1. Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form and any continuation sheet(s) (ATF Form 5300.9A)?
      Warning: You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual transferee/buyer, the licensee cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you.



    Since the 4473 doesn't apply to private sales, there is no risk of felony offense since you are not being asked that question in writing.

    Scenario 1 is CLEARLY a "Straw Purchase", no if, and's or but's about it.

    I'm not seeing any reason scenario 2 is a "Straw Purchase", rather, I see two transactions, both of which are perfectly legal.

    If there were markups involved in scenario 2 AND this was done on a routine basis with intent to profit, then there would be potential "non-licensed dealer" issues. However, I find nothing in the laws (State or Federal) that stipulate how long you must hold onto a purchased pistol before being able to turn around and sell it to another QUALIFIED buyer.

    Am I missing something? Some seem to think that scenario 2 is a "straw purchase"…if this is correct, please provide cites backing this position.
    Don't let yesterday use up too much of today - Will Rogers
    DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, or official policies of Michigan Gun Owners.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhotoTom View Post
    Am I missing something? Some seem to think that scenario 2 is a "straw purchase"…if this is correct, please provide cites backing this position.
    I don't think you're missing anything. I would agree with you on both points.

    Scenario #1 is pretty straight forward. Not only is transferring a firearm without the proper paperwork (e.g., RI-010 or RI-060) illegal, so is knowingly transferring a firearm to a prohibited person. Being a private sale, the only thing that gets eliminated is the additional charge of lying on the Form 4473.

    In scenario #2, I'm not aware of any period of time the law requires to elapse before a CPL holder can sell a firearm that he purchased with an RI-060, so long as both the purchase and sale of the firearm are otherwise legal.

  3. #3
    MGO Member JDG's Avatar
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    What I miss on the original thread? Lol!
    Since the question was asked stating the laid up person had a CPL, that is most defiantly what my post was about. To my knowledge, I can buy a handgun, not like it, sell it the same day.
    Last edited by JDG; 06-10-2021 at 05:33 AM.
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  4. #4
    MGO LIFE Member XDM 40 cal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhotoTom View Post
    Reference:
    Hypothetical - Avoiding A Straw Purchase



    Reference Post #11


    Scenario 1:
    A non-qualified individual asks a CPL holder to make a purchase on his behalf. CPL holder purchases a specific handgun. CPL holder then transports that handgun to the non-qualified individual and "sells" it to them with no paperwork and, obviously, no background checks involved since they both know the actual buyer is not qualified to purchase any firearms.

    Scenario 2:
    A CPL holder asked another CPL holder to make the purchase on his behalf since he is unable to travel to make the purchase himself. The other CPL holder purchases a specific handgun. The middleman CPL holder transports that handgun to the CPL holder that wants to purchase it and is obviously qualified to do so, but is simply unable to travel to purchase it from the previous owner. That CPL holder then sells the handgun to the laid-up CPL holder. Each of them turn in the MSP copy of the RI-060's. Since no FFLs are involved, there is no 4473 with the question of:



    Since the 4473 doesn't apply to private sales, there is no risk of felony offense since you are not being asked that question in writing.

    Scenario 1 is CLEARLY a "Straw Purchase", no if, and's or but's about it.

    I'm not seeing any reason scenario 2 is a "Straw Purchase", rather, I see two transactions, both of which are perfectly legal.

    If there were markups involved in scenario 2 AND this was done on a routine basis with intent to profit, then there would be potential "non-licensed dealer" issues. However, I find nothing in the laws (State or Federal) that stipulate how long you must hold onto a purchased pistol before being able to turn around and sell it to another QUALIFIED buyer.

    Am I missing something? Some seem to think that scenario 2 is a "straw purchase"…if this is correct, please provide cites backing this position.
    1. Straw Purchase.

    2. All legal as far as the state is concern. As both are CPL Holders in a privite transactions.
    NRA Life member, NRARSO, Howell Gun Club member, MDFI Alum 2019 & 2020, 2023 GOA Life Member. MGO life member.

  5. #5
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    Scenario 1 would be legal if the last purchaser got a purchase permit.

  6. #6
    MGO Member JDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwcopple View Post
    Scenario 1 would be legal if the last purchaser got a purchase permit.
    You missed the non-qualified part. How would he get a purchase permit?
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  7. #7
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    why are we even discussing gun acquisition by a non-qualified individual? That is illegal, bottom line.

  8. #8
    MGO Member JDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwcopple View Post
    why are we even discussing gun acquisition by a non-qualified individual? That is illegal, bottom line.
    PhotoTom was using it as an example because I think people didn’t understand my post(11) I was responding to the OP, where he stated the end buyer had a CPL, others may have missed that. That’s why deleting post in the original closed thread, makes it confusing.
    Active airport shooter

  9. #9
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    Related and similarly "hypothetical" question

    Let's say your wife is in town shopping and you see an ad for a gun you want at below cost. You call up the mrs and say "hey, buy me that gun you're in town!" And she does, using a credit account she has access to, but you pay and she doesn't. Then she sends off the registration card and gives you the gun...

    If you both have CPLs, is it a straw purchase?
    DISCLAIMER: Disclaimer. The opinions expressed in this post are those of the author, DrScaryGuy. They do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of MGO, its board of directors, or its members.

  10. #10
    MGO Board of Directors

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrScaryGuy View Post
    Related and similarly "hypothetical" question

    Let's say your wife is in town shopping and you see an ad for a gun you want at below cost. You call up the mrs and say "hey, buy me that gun you're in town!" And she does, using a credit account she has access to, but you pay and she doesn't. Then she sends off the registration card and gives you the gun...

    If you both have CPLs, is it a straw purchase?
    If both have CPLs, both are qualified individuals. In that scenario, technically she owns the gun and the husband is "borrowing" it indefinitely.

    Convicted felons, minors, persons determined by a court of law to be "mentally defective" and certain others are prohibited by law from buying a firearm.

    If a friend or relative asks you to lie to the federal government or to a federally licensed firearms retailer to try to buy a gun for him/her, don't do it! It's not worth 10 years in jail.
    http://www.dontlie.org
    Don't let yesterday use up too much of today - Will Rogers
    DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, or official policies of Michigan Gun Owners.

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