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Firearms Legal Protection

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  1. #21
    MGO Member Scandiacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol` Joe View Post
    A max on velocity and bullet wt with no case length might work with straight walled cartridges. Something that would keep the 458 and some European cartridges off limits. It might also work with bottleneck cartridges like the 30-30 or 35 rem. Say a 2300 fps max on bottlenecks and allow them on private property to start
    Restrictions on velocity and bullet weight seem like non-starters to me, since there's no practical way for a CO to check it in the field.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moleman- View Post
    I like the suggestion of the Indiana type approach and opening it up on private land to test the waters if they're reluctant to open it up to the whole limited zone.

    If going to a hybrid "what we've got now" and a list of also approved cartridges what all cartridges that would likely get approved would you put on that list. I'd like 30-30,32 special, 35Rem, 375win, 38-55, 444 Marlin, 45-70 for starters.
    All those, plus 300 Blackout, 7.62x39, maybe 30 Carbine.

  2. #22
    What was the original reason that we are so different than states out west or down south? I never heard it explained.

    Then there is even less difference with neighboring states what was this all about, couldn't it be solved by letting you use anything if you are in a tree blind, if you miss it goes in the ground.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackam View Post
    It is a little discouraging, isn't it!?
    Yes! Most of the idiots that make the laws probably never seen a day in the field hunting.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorman View Post
    Stupid laws. You can hunt with a .444 Marlin or 45-70 in a handgun but not a rifle?
    You can use a 12" Encore handgun in .444 Marlin or 45-75 and you can use the same handgun with a 20" barrel and it's legal. Why not 16", 20" or 22" rifles in the same calibers?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scandiacus View Post
    Restrictions on velocity and bullet weight seem like non-starters to me, since there's no practical way for a CO to check it in the field.
    This right here is why we can't go that route, we would be painting ourselves into the corner.

    "Oh I'm sorry Mr Josh, but I can't test this here and have to take it to a lab for testing and of course we CAN'T just take your word for it, so we are going to jail you and confiscate everything you have with you right now. Have a great day!"

    Laws like this give them MORE power, and we need to be working to weaken what they are able to do to us.

  6. #26
    MGO Member Scandiacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtmcgirt76239 View Post
    couldn't it be solved by letting you use anything if you are in a tree blind, if you miss it goes in the ground.
    I've had this thought as well, as another possible incremental step. Allow any caliber as long as you're hunting from a elevated platform.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Scandiacus View Post
    I've had this thought as well, as another possible incremental step. Allow any caliber as long as you're hunting from a elevated platform.
    Cool! Then it's easier to see that deer 800yds away and have the tools to get it done.

  8. #28
    MGO Member AxlMyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jailer View Post
    I think your ballistic arguments are spot on. None of the cartridges you proposed to allow differ greatly from what is currently allowed. The concern seems to be about about errant rounds in more densely populated areas.
    That's what I've always believed to be the reason for the shotgun only zone.

    I would maybe concentrate the argument more on a comparison of trajectories of the rounds requesting to be added to the ones currently allowed. Comparing trajectories and energies of the chosen rounds in your chart should demonstrate the point you are trying to make. A nice overlay with the plotted trajectories of each of the rounds would be a good addition. People understand and remember pictures much better than raw data.
    The numbers in the OP really mean nothing to the layman. A trajectories chart would make the best point.
    Never, under any circumstances, consume a sleeping pill and laxative on the same night.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by AxlMyk View Post
    A trajectories chart would make the best point.
    Anyone here care to post a (mostly) exhaustive chart that would include calibers that we're talking about as well as maybe some calibers that we KNOW have trajectories that could shoot into the next county? I'd sure use it in Lansing. Planning on being there next Tuesday to make the case.
    "But then there are plenty of gun folks who think no one should rock the boat because it might piss off the anti gun crowd/politicians and cause even more gun control." - Bikenut
    Submissive gun rights advocates need to lose their submissiveness before we lose our 2A rights.

  10. #30
    MGO Member Scandiacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackam View Post
    Anyone here care to post a (mostly) exhaustive chart that would include calibers that we're talking about as well as maybe some calibers that we KNOW have trajectories that could shoot into the next county? I'd sure use it in Lansing. Planning on being there next Tuesday to make the case.
    Here's a quick chart I threw together with one example of each cartridge. Not exactly exhaustive, but it's a starting point. I tried to keep manufacturer/product line consistent as much as possible so it's a fair-ish comparison. Cartridges highlighted in green are currently legal in the Limited Firearm Deer Zone. Blue highlights are some of the cartridges we've discussed here with similar ballistics to what's currently legal. Red are "next county" cartridges.



    Here's a chart showing the trajectories of each. Sorry it's hard to read and the color coding is all too similar; best I could do with a free tool (Shooter's Calculator).

    https://i.imgur.com/PzPnZkM.png

    Here's a less crowded chart with just a sampling of the cartridges.



    If you'd like a different arrangement, different ranges, etc. let me know.

    I'm realizing now it would be good if I added labels to the end of each trajectory on the right so you don't have to rely on the barely legible color coding. I have to go now, but I'll come back later and upload updated versions with labels.

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