red dot for defense?

[kramer]

Up close point shooting is useful and effective but makes red dots/lasers/iron sights moot. Otherwise night sights. Glow in the dark iron sights. But if it is so dark I have to rely on a red dot wouldn't there be a human tendency to put entirely too much focus on the dot, the brightest thing, and not the guy again resulting in a bit of hesitation/focus off the guy?

Again guys, not trying to be a jerk but really just don't see any advantage to red dots. Hell, if you guys can convince me I'll give both the red dot and a laser another try. ... Although with a laser a person could be in a physical position (behind a couch reaching over the top maybe?) where they couldn't be behind the gun but could still get the laser on the bad guys COM.

Totally agree. I do not even use my sights unless I am more than 15 yards or doing head shots with hostage takers and have time. i've shot recurve bows for many years without sights, same principal. Muscle memory. Look where you want your shot to hit and put rounds on target.

[kramer]

Up close point shooting is useful and effective but makes red dots/lasers/iron sights moot. Otherwise night sights. Glow in the dark iron sights. But if it is so dark I have to rely on a red dot wouldn't there be a human tendency to put entirely too much focus on the dot, the brightest thing, and not the guy again resulting in a bit of hesitation/focus off the guy?

Again guys, not trying to be a jerk but really just don't see any advantage to red dots. Hell, if you guys can convince me I'll give both the red dot and a laser another try. ... Although with a laser a person could be in a physical position (behind a couch reaching over the top maybe?) where they couldn't be behind the gun but could still get the laser on the bad guys COM.

Totally agree. I do not even use my sights unless I am more than 15 yards or doing head shots with hostage takers and have time. i've shot recurve bows for many years without sights, same principal. Muscle memory. Look where you want your shot to hit and put rounds on target.

[twofeathers]

Iron sights you have three points to focus on.

Red dot you have two.

[Quantum007]

As far as Red Dots vs Iron Sights for defense, I can say that in my experiance it depends on the end user. There is a learning curve with some changes on the presentation from the draw. Getting and keeping the gun level and tracking the dot through the firing process. It's really the same as irons, but it does take a little getting used to becasue there is a lot more visual information to process. As far as the issue of fogging of the lens goes, I've see it happen some times but almost everyone that I've taken classes with or shooting IDPA and USPSA matches uses some anti fog on the glass and they are fine.

As for issues of being so close, or the dot failing there are various different ways of using the dot housing or even the backplate of the pistol for sighting. The very best answer I can give is if you are really interested in trying MRDS on Defensive Pistols is to get a class from a vetted school. You can save yourself a ton of trial and error and pick up a lot of information. In the end, everyone's journey is different.

[dirtmcgirt76239]

Totally agree. I do not even use my sights unless I am more than 15 yards or doing head shots with hostage takers and have time. i've shot recurve bows for many years without sights, same principal. Muscle memory. Look where you want your shot to hit and put rounds on target.

Its useful to get your reps in with sights, not learning to use no sights.

Its like trick shots in basketball, pool, golf. You play the right way for years, thousands of hours, then you can make shots you shouldn't be able to make. You would never encourage your 4th grade son to practice the wrong way from the start and get good at the trick shot.

[dirtmcgirt76239]

Totally agree. I do not even use my sights unless I am more than 15 yards or doing head shots with hostage takers and have time. i've shot recurve bows for many years without sights, same principal. Muscle memory. Look where you want your shot to hit and put rounds on target.

But you did use them. I suspect you are using them, but its subconscious, or secondary .... its just you have such good instincts now, muscle memory, etc that you do not need them.

I cannot prove it, but they are there, I think your eyes are seeing them. You brain is doing a lot of stuff.

[JDeko]

Red dots on long guns are a real no-brainer with how fast they are to use. I put a red dot on my .44 Taurus Tracker for poops and cackles, that was not as easy to use. Colion Noir said in one of his videos that red dots on pistols are initially slower as you fish for the dot but once you master it they are faster and easier to use.

So in an ideal world you'd train with a second pistol to master acquiring the dot quickly, then transition into carrying a pistol with a dot only after it'd be a benefit over your iron sighted current daily carry.

[wsr]

Understand and appreciate it.

What I'm saying is if my presentation/index isn't on then I'm looking for the dot instead of the target just as I would be looking for the sights. At least the front sight. But if my presentation/index is on and the red dot is on target then so are my iron sights.... hence why would a red dot be an advantage over the iron sights? And if I'm looking at the dot instead of what the bad guy is doing then I'm in trouble whether my presentation/index is on or not.

I personally didn't think finding the red dot or the laser dot was any easier than finding the front sight. But I did find myself hesitating just a micro second checking for the affirmation of the dot instead of firing even with everything already lined up. I considered losing that little bit of time a negative. A negative bigger than the red dot/laser units adding to the bulk to be carried and the possibility to an electronic failure. Added all together I decided I wasn't gaining anything. Quite the opposite actually.

And that is why I, in all seriousness, asked what the benefit of a red dot/laser would be.

You shouldn’t be focusing on the dot, focus on the target and the appears “transposed” on the target
As far as looking for the dot or sights on a bad presentation once you do find the dot you are good and can shoot once it’s where you want it ….where the dot is the bullet goes…once you find the front sight you need to find the rear sight then align them and put them where you want them before you can get off a good shot

As far as hesitating before the shot that’s just a matter of getting comfortable that the dot is true

The vast majority of people will be more accurate with a dot than irons…less to think about focus on or go wrong

[Leader]

Up close point shooting is useful and effective but makes red dots/lasers/iron sights moot. Otherwise night sights. Glow in the dark iron sights. But if it is so dark I have to rely on a red dot wouldn't there be a human tendency to put entirely too much focus on the dot, the brightest thing, and not the guy again resulting in a bit of hesitation/focus off the guy?

Again guys, not trying to be a jerk but really just don't see any advantage to red dots. Hell, if you guys can convince me I'll give both the red dot and a laser another try. ... Although with a laser a person could be in a physical position (behind a couch reaching over the top maybe?) where they couldn't be behind the gun but could still get the laser on the bad guys COM.

I focus on the bad guy, when the laser gets there, pull the trigger.
(Well... in theory. Never had to deal with that kind of bad guy yet.)
Your point shooting will bring the gun into the right area, the laser just verifies when to shoot.

[Leader]

Iron sights you have three points to focus on.

Red dot you have two.

Laser has 1
When the target is lit up, pull the trigger.

Again, just my answer to HD in the dark without my glasses.
Use whatever works for you.