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  1. #1
    Super Moderator Mr. Waverly's Avatar
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    High(er) End 1911's

    Let's get away from politics for a while.

    Help me understand why 1911's from Nighthawk, Wilson Combat, Ed Brown and so on are considered to be much better than 1911's that fall into the sub-$1,000 range. What sets them apart? Why would I want to own one if it does the same thing a $500 RIA does?

    Next, if I were to save my pennies to invest in a $3,000 (plus or minus) 1911, what make/model would be a good choice, and why? My interest in owning one is more for range use, not for EDC, and, although I am partial to 9mm, I am not adverse to .45 acp. And, I am not interested in commemorative models, nor in those fancy, engraved and gold and jewel encrusted models.

    Obviously, I have an interest, so I am just trying to gauge my options and determine if this is a direction I want to go in.

    Lastly, as I review what I wrote (heaven knows, I don't want to post anything silly or foolish here), I'm asking myself if this is similar to asking about the difference between a Chevy Malibu and a Corvette? The things we think of late at night.

    Looking forward to your answers,
    DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, or official policies of Michigan Gun Owners.

  2. #2
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    Handle and look closely at for instance a nighthawk, Wilson or less Baer and cycle the slide, jiggle the slide and run your fingers all over the pistol.

    Then pick up a Taurus and whatever other sub $1500 pistol and do the same thing. Believe me I never would have believed the difference until I held a nighthawk.

    Furthermore you have to get into a $1500+ pistol to not get mim parts. Dan Wesson is about the lowest price you can go to avoid those.

    It's really all about fit, finish, consistent accuracy over time and at distance and being less picky/finicky because all the tuning has been done by the factory.

    I own a Dan Wesson in 9mm, a couple of Colts, a Les Baer, Springfield Professional and another custom made pistol. I've also owned a sig 1911. The pistol didn't have any problems with me, but the quality just wasn't there. It went bye bye in a trade.

    That's my take, but I decided several years ago that I only wanted the best.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preacherboy View Post
    Handle and look closely at for instance a nighthawk, Wilson or less Baer and cycle the slide, jiggle the slide and run your fingers all over the pistol.

    Then pick up a Taurus and whatever other sub $1500 pistol and do the same thing. Believe me I never would have believed the difference until I held a nighthawk.

    Furthermore you have to get into a $1500+ pistol to not get mim parts. Dan Wesson is about the lowest price you can go to avoid those.

    It's really all about fit, finish, consistent accuracy over time and at distance and being less picky/finicky because all the tuning has been done by the factory.

    I own a Dan Wesson in 9mm, a couple of Colts, a Les Baer, Springfield Professional and another custom made pistol. I've also owned a sig 1911. The pistol didn't have any problems with me, but the quality just wasn't there. It went bye bye in a trade.

    That's my take, but I decided several years ago that I only wanted the best.
    This. I didn't get it either until handling one in person. The depth of the finish and consistency of it is the one thing that always gets me.

  4. #4
    MGO Member Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
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    Hand made vs assembly line made to put it the most simply.


    Like others have said, it’s hard to understand unless you actually handle one. Every fitment, every machine process, every facet of construction on a Nighthawk/ Wilson/ etc is done with the highest level of craftsmanship and care. Most high end manufacturers, and I believe this is true with both Nighthawk and Wilson, will have one gunsmith assigned to a pistol from start to finish. This gunsmith is an experienced machinist and craftsman that takes pride in the product. Mass produced 1911’s are slapped together on an assembly line much like a Chevrolet. One person does their one assigned task just well enough for it to pass inspection and move on to the next stage. Tolerances are kept looser to allow for greater error in production to still allow operation.

    Also, since it’s one gunsmith producing your pistol, they can do anything extra you want. You just have to ask (and pay). You want 20 LPI checkering instead of 24 LPI? Sure. You want serrations on the back of the slide on either side of the hammer? Sure. You want Nitre blued controls/ pins/ screws on a color case hardened frame? Whatever you want.


    Even on ‘base’ models, the slide to frame fitment is perfect. It feels like it’s riding on ball bearings with no hang ups or rough spots. Thumb safeties snap on and off like breaking glass with no play. Triggers are perfectly fit to have no wobble, overtravel, and only enough pretravel to warrant proper operation. There’s no evidence of casting lines or sprues, no machine chatter, no areas left unpolished because ‘it’s hidden and you won’t see it with the slide on anyway’.


    Buying a Nighthawk over a Sig is like buying an AMG over a Camaro. Both will do the job well, but one is far more detailed and closer tolerance.


    I have both premium and budget 1911’s. My $650 RIA with $300 in “reliability finishing” is one of the most accurate pistols I have, reliable too. But it looks like utter dog crap up close, and feels like a $650 1911 in the hand. My $1800 custom shop Sig, which is leaps and bounds below a Nighthawk, oozes quality by comparison. Many many more machine processes and finishing works. A $5000 base model Nighthawk has the same jump in quality from the $1800 Sig as the Sig is from the RIA. A full custom $8500 Wilson Supergrade is a step yet above that. Like going from a Mustang to a Corvette, to a Lamborghini, to a Bugatti.
    Last edited by Fuel Fire Desire; 03-16-2023 at 10:02 PM.

  5. #5
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    As stated. it's about quality of materials & workmanship.
    The top tier 1911's are (supposedly) flawless, yet you can read about all brands having issues.
    The top tier pistols have good, or great customer service.
    When you have skilled workers hand fitting metal pieces, you can't get away with paying them minimum wage.

    I own a few 'tuned" 1911's, by Terry Tussey, Jim Clark, a Sig Custom shop, and a few others , but own none of the name brand customs.
    I'd appreciate the workmanship, but my current collection is capable of greater accuracy than I'm capable of shooting, so I don't feel the need or
    have the desire to buy a Wilson, Nighthawk, Ed Brown, Les Baer, etc.. though I do understand why some may want them.

  6. #6
    MGO Member Ol` Joe's Avatar
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    Think Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini etc. A Honda Civic gets you to the same destination abet a little slower.
    "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt".

    The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray

  7. #7
    I am a Forum User
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    I have a Dan Wesson

    Springfield pro shop

    Wilson combat

    Guncrafter industry

    I use my Dan Wesson the most

    Almost never use my guncrafter

    My GI is far and away the most expensive gun I own..

    The weight is insane..

  8. #8
    Some of the cheaper 1911 are can't frames.

    Not having owned anything that nice but shot a couple custom 1911, a dan Wesson is probably the sweet spot or all you need. Also the fancier custom from cheaper custom I don't think many people can make use of the difference. If you got the cheapest les Baer 9mm I think you would like it abd be very proud.

    I think it's more like watches than cars.

    Glocks are casios.

    Dan Wesson is seiko.

    Fancier is how much you want to pay a guy in Switzerland to work and do you derive joy from hand made precision stuff etc.

  9. #9
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    Dear Mr. Waverly:

    I shoot bullseye pistol competitions and in my sport, trigger quality, reliability, and accuracy is what we strive for. Pretty Grips, deep blue finish, special engraving, we could could care less about. x ring accuracy, trigger, and no alibi's are what counts.

    Most of us grabbed a springfield range officer and sent it to a renowned gunsmith for accuracy and trigger work. spent more on the smith then the original pistol.

    Some of us purchased complete ready to go pistols from well known and highly sought after gunsmiths. Les Baer, Clark, KC Creations, Maybe came out ahead of the Springfield Range officer purchasers.

    Probably about the best way to go about it is to find a bullseye shooter hanging up his hearing muffs. get his multi thousand dollar pistol finely tuned with a bucket of brass and a reloading recipe with specific supplier requirements. whos bullets and how many graines, powder type and quantity, and primers that work the bestest.

    when you start competing and recording your scores every match, with the day after email listing who came in first, second, third, and last place, is when you can really start to appreciate a well made 1911.

    The cheap ones do not have the accuracy you need. the top dollar ones are close, maybe you will get lucky. the finely tuned competition guns are on a level all their own.

    Course you have to have the ability to realize the accuracy of your pistol to begin with.

    Regards,
    Crankster
    Last edited by crankythunder; 03-17-2023 at 08:02 PM. Reason: misspellings added to verify authorship by engineer

  10. #10
    I am a Forum User
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    There are some good options between RIA and Dan Wesson and higher 1911s. I'm in love with my Bul Armory DE1911G.

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