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  1. #61
    Super Moderator Jackam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Flint, Mi
    Well... allow me....

    My thoughts in less than 900 words:

    You used a very descriptive adjective along with an oral sex act in a post. You really thought that would be okay? Really? I thought it was vulgar for a public forum. I still do.

    You may refer to this as a "playground" but the reality is, the forum is the face of the organization. Whether we like it or not, we have been judged, and will continue to be judged, by the content.

    I'll give you an example... our Legislative Liaison set up a face to face meeting with Governor Snyder. Like him or hate him, we need him, and our guy actually had an appointment to speak one-on-one with him. A few hours prior to the meeting, it was abruptly canceled with no explanation. Behind the scenes in Lansing, it was whispered that someone on the MGO forum had posted a very negative post about the Governor. The meeting, to my knowledge, was never re-scheduled. Did the OP have the right to post it? Yes. What he correct? Maybe. Did the forum act as the face of MGO that day - yes it certainly did.

    I belong to a few other forums. On one, we are required to use our real names. You would not believe the civility there. It's very professional and yet, guys still have a ton of fun.
    The other two are hobby forums, much like this gun forum - except, for some reason, there is ZERO flaunting of the rules and skirting the cuss filter. There are no racist comments, no youtube videos of wet T shirt contests, and nothing that would make you not want to come back (although I do enjoy a good contest!) The moderation there is iron-clad.... yet people still discuss their thoughts and the hobbies and nobody goes home mad. Why is it that THIS forum, MGO, seems to draw out the 12 year old in us?

    I don't believe that my comments were anywhere near breaking the AUP or I certainly wouldn't have posted in that manner. If you do - or ever do in the future - please flag it. What's right is right and, although I don't believe in the "higher standard" drivel, what's good for the goose is good for the gander is good for the forum! I have moderated a Mod's post in the past. The other Mods would have no trouble moderating one of mine. I've been "reported on" before and most certainly will be again. What I'm saying is that it's not a good old boys club. What's right is right.

    Now, to the crux of your concern - the new point infraction system. I don't think any of the mods or the admins think it's perfect, but I think there is total agreement that it takes a lot of the subjectiveness out of moderation. At one time a while back, we all agreed that 3 strikes in a month and you get a time out. Sometimes that stretched into four or five strikes, sometimes it was even less than three. With this system, the points is what they is. The only way that someone may get an extension is if one of the mods decides to warn instead of give an infraction. Warnings are issued, and that is the human element of the system that seems to disturb you as unfair. Discretion is an important tool and if anything, leans toward NOT censoring (banning) a guy right away - something that it appears you would favor.
    I can tell you this - PhotoTom is AMAZING when it comes to seeing things the way they should be. He's probably not done tweaking the infraction system. He certainly is not done stepping in and discussing things with the mods when there is a tightrope situation and the mod has to do the balance act.

    Oh! And another thing - We have made it a practice to NOT edit someone else's post. If something in the post - even one vulgar phrase is in there - the whole post bites the dust. With the older software version, there was no tracking how a Mod had edited your post so, we just didn't do it. Now, I believe, we CAN track the changes, but it comes down to this....
    Do you want a Mod changing your post to delete the rule breaking words or sentences? Even though there would be fine print saying "edited by____" it would still look like it came directly from the OP. I don't think I want anyone reconstructing my paragraphs for me!
    On that same line of thinking, I don't think there's a mod here that WANTS to be at the end of the parade with the shovel and dust pan, cleaning up what messes were made because guys didn't care where they defecated (knowing full well it would get cleaned up.)
    There are rules and we enforce them when they are broken (when we see them.) We all agreed to play nice when we joined. None of us should be in an uproar when we break a rule and get called out for doing so.

    To me, deleting a vulgar post is not censorship. Going into the post with Mod powers and CHANGING it to fit the rules most certainly is censorship.

    Your thoughts?
    Last edited by Jackam; 07-07-2014 at 10:11 PM.
    Summer is here and we have officially declared the Corona Virus can be disregarded because we want to do some things!

  2. #62
    MGO Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    United States of America
    I actually read a post of yours, around the same time that I posted my original response, that said that the forum and the org were 2 separate things. Im too lazy to search for it now.

    If we want to avoid PR issues, just block access to the site without membership.. pretty simple. as for the issue with that specific candidate, sounds like they were fishing for a reason to back out of the meeting, I'm sure theyd find one regardless of how many posts we block.

    we've made it clear that the forum and org are 2 separate things, even in the avatar/description of each member. If we treat it as 1, then we defeat the purpose and just sound like hypocrites.

    the forum is the forum, would the org exist without it? most likely. I think we're mudding the water here with 2 entirely separate topics.


    here's another thought.

    we are ultimately trying to sell advertising space on the site to advance the org's activities and events.

    gun ranges/gun shops are our target market for that ad space.

    how many threads do we he have on here bashing x range or y shop?

    quite a few. based on your logic, we have a conflict of interest between the org and the forum posts, the same way you had with that political figure, and the ultimate solution is to either stop treating the forum as the org, put on some big boy pants, and let adults speak like adults, as I assume you have to be 18 to the site and any time spent policing 'grammar and language' is ultimately lost time and wasted effort, OR, just delete the entire forum, since the effort involved now seems to favor some of us who speak less 'passionately' than others. Or risk turning away all the potential site sponsors due to our members bashing their retail setups.

    By the way, I'm sticking to my original point, which you elegantly tiptoed around. You calling non-union members SCABS, is no better than me saying I wanted oral sex from a flight attendant to convince me to fly again. regardless of how its phrased.

    Except, your intent was to insult others, mine was not. So based on AUP terms you sent me, your post would actually be in violation, or am I wrong?

    So once again, we are getting into the argument of 'who' decides what is good, and what is bad, and to pretend that mods wouldn't skirt by with issues, when they have power to delete or edit posts of others, is no different than pretending that cops dont provide opportunities for cops to get away with traffic infractions.

    getting my point yet?
    Last edited by AleksanderSuave; 07-10-2014 at 01:43 AM.

  3. #63
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Tuscola Co., Michigan 48768
    I hope the Governor got the message that gun owners in Michigan are not happy with him!!!!

  4. #64
    MGO Member Forum User
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by 45/70fan View Post
    I hope the Governor got the message that gun owners in Michigan are not happy with him!!!!
    I hope ALL REPS DO, but I doubt they hear the little guys..

  5. #65
    MGO Member Forum User
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Always a joy to hear politics discussed on forums.. LOL

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