Milsurp / C&R stores near Lansing?

[PhotoTom]

Yet, a FSR (Firearms Sales Record) whatever that is is required to be filled out. And, currently the only "FSR" is the RI-060 which is specific to pistol purchases/sales. I know after talking with the Sheriff that they were originally petrified that these would have to be submitted and entered into the SP database for all long gun purchases since they don't have the staff. They are probably relieved. That said, however, I suspect that this FSR will likely be required to be carried or be available for inspection if asked yet, that isn't in the law either. And that presents a problem with long guns purchased prior to Feb 13th. I see all sorts of potential issues here. Since no "receipt or sales record" was required for FTF transfers before, the state has no idea when a long arm was purchased rendering this law unenforceable (and useless for private purchases/sales) unless the FSR's are required to be entered into the SP database which it appears they are not. I wouldn't put it past them to make some changes in the future.

Nothing ruffled here...I'm just trying to make sure misunderstandings don't originate from here.

The RI-060 has been updated, going from "Pistol" to "Firearm" in order to align with the recently amended laws.

There are no retention requirements for completed forms when it comes to long guns.

This was a half-baked amendment that was rushed-through the process just so that the legislators could say they did something with regards to enacting new gun control legislation. I agree that it is subject to future changes, but for now, there is no long gun registration, nor any requirements to keep completed transaction records.

MSP is telling people that purchase permits are NOT required when a non-CPL holder buys from a FFL. That's bad info and contradicts the law, as written/passed/enacted. You can bet that there are hundreds, if not thousands of illegal transactions occurring every day because of this. The sad part is, just because MSP said so doesn't absolve the FFL/buyer from knowing the law and complying with it.

[MCPO_SOCM_RET]

I'm confused about the Type 03 license concerns.
I re-read what you wrote several times and am still having problems following why "For C&R purchases, there is an issue now that wasn't realized before" or "a C&R license is unrecognized in Michigan" or "the State of Michigan has no provision in their laws for any other kind of FFL other than a dealer. They do not recognize an 03FFL. And be careful with "antiques"."

Can you expound about how you have come to these conclusions please? If you've found something that others haven't, please share.

I really hope it isn't based on your suspicion "that this would hold for any FFL other than 01FFL - Dealer" or the rampant misinformation flying around related to the term "dealer" found in 28.422a which completely ignores section (4) of the same statute.

[qz2026]

Antique Firearms
750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); “antique firearm” defined...
(2) As used in this section, “antique firearm” means either of the following:
(i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and
manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica
of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.
(ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in
the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade
In other words if you can no longer purchase ammunition's for your firearm older than 1898, it's an antique. There is no ammunition requirement under the Federal statute.

C&R Licenses
Read the law for yourself. Curio & Relic licenses are not described anywhere in the Michigan law. I didn't say that the issue wasn't realized before. I am not sure if rifles required LTP's in the past for private sales but I don't think so. But now unless you are going to a dealer to purchase your rifle or you as the buyer have a CPL you need to get an LTP. This is different. What I am saying is that now there is a bit of documentation required that wasn't required before - either an LTP or an RI-060. Granted, they don't have to be submitted for registration yet.

In the past I don't think that the state knew what to do with C&R long guns. I think that because the FTF long gun acquisition laws in Michigan were so lax in the state no one particularly cared. But now there are requirements for either an LTP or an RI-060 to be prepared. No out of state seller will fill these forms out for you. As far as Michigan cares, long guns purchased out of state will have to be transferred via a Michigan 01FFL. Even the seller, GunBroker for example will require a C&R FFL (if the weapon is C&R eligible) or a dealer to ship the weapon to. They will, however, ship antiques (as defined in Federal Law) to anyone of age. Yet the buyer has to be very careful how their state defines antique. In Michigan, for example, an 1891 Argentine Mauser is NOT considered an antique yet Federal Law does.

There is no defined process in Michigan law that allows their citizens to purchase a firearm older than 50 years old with the use of an 03FFL. Of course the key issue here is that the firearm may be purchased from any state and the firearm shipped directly to the buyer. And the seller need not have an FFL (although I think that law may be changing). As a matter of fact I could not find "C&R" or "Curio and Relic" in my searches of Michigan gun laws. If you can find it, let me know.

What I do know has to do with pistols. I have purchased many pistols out of state with my C&R FFL. But, once I received them I had to have them transferred to me by an a dealer FFL as with any other pistol purchase. This is what the Sheriff and I determined would be the legal route. Why? Because there are no exceptions for C&R purchases in state law and pistol registration is required for all hand guns in the state with a few exceptions like having a CPL. I was able on one occasion to complete an RI-060 for one of those pistols. That was only because the seller's FFL license number was already in the SP database as being either a Michigan Dealer or an out of state dealer who was registered in Michigan. But that "loophole" is over now since the RI-060 is the responsibility of the seller now where in the past it was the buyer's responsibility. At the time there was no such requirement from the Sheriff for long guns that fall into the C&R age category. Every three years when I renewed my license I have to provide the Sheriff with my purchased/sold numbers for the previous 3 years (the copy of my renewal application). He had no issues with this and never questioned anything other than he wanted to know if any of the transactions were pistols.

I really hope it isn't based on your suspicion "that this would hold for any FFL other than 01FFL - Dealer" or the rampant misinformation flying around related to the term "dealer" found in 28.422a which completely ignores section (4) of the same statute. I don't understand your concern with section (4). A Federally Licensed Dealer (and this is how Michigan defines dealers) is generally but not always an 01FFL. The only other that are likely to sell are 02FFL's - Pawn Brokers. 03FFL's are allowed to sell but this license is not a license to sell as a business as 01/02 FFL's are thus requiring great care and sound reasons why a C&R weapon is being sold. I'm not sure what you mean by rampant misinformation.